CWB and CGC Grain Grading at Port....Gossip?

[parsley]

Chat tonight for you guys that have been concerned.....at 8:30 tonight..... to talk a little about what's happening at port. Sounds grim if it's true.
Who knows what's going on?

Parsley

[TOM4CWB]

Parsley,

Let me get this straight, as we all had such a hard time getting on the chat site, and kept getting cut off, was this about CWRS quality problems?

Was something mentioned about 2CWRS falling numbers being too low?

Was it about our west coast terminals not being able to meet milling quality standards because of sprouted wheat, or wheat dryed too fast, leading to whole boat loads being rejected?

What does this say about KVD dependability, shouldn't we be testing falling #'s at the local elevator like the American system has for ever?

[parsley]

It's rumor so far Tom4CWB, but there could be a problem. #2 CWRS is supposedly at port and the buyers have refused because the falling # is bad. Anyone who mills flour knows that you need a proper balance of FN's and protein. One or the other too high or too low and the bread is not ideal.

With the grading system we have, it is rumored that the CGC made the usual eyeballing.....and it probably looked ok....but it wasn't .

Sprouted grain=Disastrous falling#'s
Like we were chatting last night, it's only rumor.....but if it's true, it could be serious.
Parsley

Chatting is pretty neat!

[parsley]

It's rumor so far Tom4CWB, but there could be a problem. #2 CWRS is supposedly at port and the buyers have refused because the falling # is bad. Anyone who mills flour knows that you need a proper balance of FN's and protein. One or the other too high or too low and the bread is not ideal.

With the grading system we have, it is rumored that the CGC made the usual eyeballing.....and it probably looked ok....but it wasn't .

Sprouted grain=Disastrous falling#'s

Like we were chatting last night, it's only rumor.....but if it's true, it could be serious.

Parsley

Chatting is pretty neat!

[AdamSmith]

It's not just rumor guys!

Let me share with you a few exerpts of a copy of a letter that, shall we say arrived across my desk the other day.

It was addressed to Mr. Ed Guest, Executive Director of the WGEA from Ward Weisensel VP Transportation and Country Operations CWB.

The first paragraph reads: Further to our meeting of March 22, 2001, the purpose of this letter is to advise Country Elevator Association (CEA) members of a serious problem that is affecting the quality reputation that Canada has built over the years. In particular, I'm refering to the low and highly variable falling number(FN) levels on shipments of No.2 and 3 Canada Western Red Spring (CWRS).

Weather conditions during harvest of this year's crop resulted in varying levels of kernal sprouting of wheat...

... The net effect of this blending is that the FN levels of No.2/3CWRS unloading at port are not meeting the quality expectations of customers.

...The present segregation program is not meeting all our expectations. As a result, we are in the process of identifying alternatives that need to be employed to ensure that Canadian wheat maintains its quality reputation with export customers. One of these is the potential NIR system... Another would be the implementation of a program that intergrates FN requirements at both the country and terminal level.


So there you have it straight from the CWB themselves. Our system, the CWB/CGC/KVD system has failed us big time.

AdamSmith

[parsley]

My sources tell me this is reliable information. AdamSmith did you do any checking?
Parsley

[parsley]

BY the way, the elected Directors will be the last to know, won't they?
Parsley

[AdamSmith]

I am still trying to find out how serious this is, I'll make some calls today. We know from the letter it's fact but we don't know yet if it can be sorted out in time to do any serious long term damage.

AdamSmith

[TOM4CWB]

Parsley,

My local elevator did confirm that there is a problem, but said this was the first report from a farmer that he had recieved.

Isn't this amazing, farmers are responsible for producing the grain quality, but when a problem occurs, we are the last to know!

What does this say about quality control in Canada?

US elevators have been doing falling #'s for ever, as do all millers.

Isn't it amazing that Canadian Farmers are the last people on the planet to learn that the falling # is the first and most important criteria in Milling wheat, along with bushel weight!

# 3 CWRS with a good falling # is worth much more than # 1 with a bad falling #

This is why when I shipped my 3CWRS to the US it was worth much more than in Canada.

The CWB does not really pay anything for protein in CWRS, and until now because of high thruput elevators, blending took care of the falling # issue, simply by dilution.

The CWB must now start marketing wheat American style, wheather they like it or not.

I really hope this solves problems, and makes our wheat more valuable, not discounting Canadian wheat again!

So much for product differentiation!

[TOM4CWB]

I should clearify, 3CWRS, and feed CWRS which both can be perfectly good milling quality!

[TOM4CWB]

The internet is a very powerful tool. Did anyone catch up with the rumour that canola oil had serious health risks? (see Western Producer of April 5/01 page 23) This erroneous message was started by a technology worker in Massachusetts who 'discovered' these concerns on a website and fired it to some friends.

They sent it to some friends, and soon it became a topic for a website about urban legends - false stories that get embedded in human consciousness.

The canola council and others have spent significant resources to counteract what started as an innocent sharing of 'mis'information.

My point is that I hope the anonymity of this site doesn't numb the participants' common sense, recognizing the world is watching (so to speak).

Falling number tests are conducted at port, and if there are problems, obviously they are rectified before the CGC provides a certificate final on any vessel. This is the basis of Canada's reputation.

Concerning visual grading, there is no question that it is not as precise as taking specific tests on specific samples, but is has proven to be very effective and inexpensive.

I'm sure that whatever problems arise as shipments arrive at port terminals, that Canada continues to meet the specifications of our customers.

Tom

[TOM4CWB]

thalpenny,

My question is then,

When will we begin to grade using milling standards, rather than visual standards.

I dug out my CIGI book and it said:

Page 700,
"...Canada is beset with geographical difficulties in moving grain to port.
However, although movement of grain to ocean ports is complex and costly, it does have one important redeeming factor -- each step of the way (from farmer's deliveries to primary elevators, to marshalling of rail carlots prior to shipment to export position, where carlots of like grade are binned at terminal elevators), grain of diverse origin is combined. Much regional variability is thereby eliminated, imparting uniformity between lots of simular grade."

It is obvious to anyone with the change to the grain handling system in the last 2 years that now our grading system must change also.

3 unit trains from one area could now fill a whole boat.

Big problem.

Maybe now it would be OK if I got paid for my specific wheat, instead of being thrown into a big blender, and getting paid for whatever got spewed out on the other end?

If I have wheat with a high falling #, would it be OK if I got paid for that?

[parsley]

thalpenny, many of us are very familiar with the "false stories that get embedded in human consciousness". We 've been told for years that the CWB had a mandate to get the best prices for farmers. Not true. We've been told for years that the CWB had a mandate to work in the interests of farmers. Not true. CWB said they couldn't issue export licenses without a change in legislation. Not true. Ideas that were imbedded in our consciousness, just like you say. Since the CWb is purported to have authored the letter (I've never seen it), it certainly should be received with skepticism. Good point Thalpenny. Thanks for the tip.

Parsley

[AdamSmith]

thalpenney, I made a judgement call here. Weighing the possible ramifications to our system and farmers bottom line vs the need for farmers to know what is going on within the system.

As a farmer, which is more important to me, having knowledge of something and keeping it quiet because it could cause harm in the short term or bringing the problem to light so that action can be taken so that this type of problem won't reoccur in the future?

I chose the latter based on the fact that if damage has been done and dollars have been lost, it has allready happened. Keeping quiet won't undo what has already been done.

It is true I do not have all the facts but to suggest this is merely misinformation when I have a letter that would suggest otherwise is quite absurd. Only a really bad poker player would try to bluff after the cards have been shown.

I guess what irks me here is that HY644 the fusarium resistant CPS wheat was regected because of KVD and within a few weeks of that decision I find out that this system is proving to have it's failings and the regulators who impose this system (KVD)on the farmers of WCanada are, behind closed doors, questioning it's current value. While the message for public consumption remains something quite different.

I hope things have been straightened out or will be very soon, but instead of trying to sweep this under the rug maybe farmers should be made aware of it and see if they think changes are warrented.

AdamSmith

[ianben]

Hi All
I am amazed you don't do falling number test, we call it Hagberg, on each load delivered to elevator. That is the way it is done here, below 250 is rejected and is feed, no argument, no premium,
Merchants sometimes try to blend, but it is risky as you sometimes end up with more feed.
The bakers say they can tell when it has been blended so you do damage your reputation.
Our millers like to use one variety for each batch of flour to give consistant
results and falling numbers are definitely important to them.
So looks to me like the CWB is not helping you in this area either.

Regards Ian