US Grading and Pricing

[bbrindle]

Chas, as Braveheart indicated the difference in the bushel measurement is very important for some crops. Farmers marketing their oats to the US have discovered this quite quickly!

The US uses a Winchester bushel and Canada uses an Avery bushel. I was told a Winchester bushel is 0.8035 of a cubic foot, while the Avery bushel is 0.7786 of a cubic foot. The Canadian Grain Commission can provide information on determining the metric test weight, and then converting to Avery or Winchester bushel. The CGC has a table for all the commodities. For instance, the barley table show g/0.5l, kg/hl, Avery lb/bu, Winchester lb/bu. Often with barley we refer to 48 lb to bushel. By looking at this table you'll find that 48 lb/bu (Avery) is 44.7 lb/bu (Winchester). And that's about all I know about this!

[ianben]

Hi All
Its interesting how different marketing is in other countries.
Ergot is zero tolerance for bread wheat over here too.
Anybody know about those Warbutons contracts??
Are they bluffing when they say they get the same specs and assurance from Canadian wheat that they demand from us?

Regards Ian

[charliep]

Ianben

I will make a crack at explaining the Warbuton contracts to you (I should leave till I can do more homework but others who can fill in the gaps/I can do more homework next week).

To start at your end of the world my understanding about your Warbutons. My knowledge suggests that Warbuton is an high quality upper end grocery store with a good reputation for quality. A part of this is their bread. Canadian hard red spring wheat is likely the best in the world although the market place has gone a long ways in getting similar bread qualities out of some of the softer wheats. Does Warbutons highlight the fact they use Canadian wheat on the bread labels?

UK business is mostly out of the east coast of Canada meaning that grain has traditionally been source out of Manitoba/S.E. Saskatchewan. Fusarium head blight is becoming more and more of a problem in this area so the draw area is expanding to most of Saskatchewan.

Warbutons have representives in Canada (Brandon I think) but the contracting programs are run by two domestic grain companies (agricore and patterson - please correct me if there are additional). The contracts are variety (Teal plus others - I have to get help here/do research) and quality specific (high protein 1CWRS with high protein - is 2 an option with a discount?). Again, I have to do some homeworkd as to whether there are other quality requirements like falling or whether the assumption is that our grading system catchs these factors. Farmers are paid a premium to CWB total payments (somewhere in the $20/t or 50 cents/bu but I have to check).

I think there is support on the agronomic side - some type of crop scouting. There may be some things tied in like use of the grain companies seed/herbicides but again I have to get the assistance of farm managers who have used the program. I am not so sure as to delivery commitments and whether storage is paid.

I look for farm managers who have used the program to comment. I also would argue this is an example of a value chain that works at least to some extent. Comments.

[cropduster]

Now how could this be....... some farmers getting paid more than others within our wonderful CWB system!!!!!and not even a separate pool????Could this be a form of exemption thalpenny???/ Shudder the thought!!

[TOM4CWB]

Cropduster,

I agree,

There is one law for the goose, and another for the gander!!!

I think we are the gooses!(my wife tells me there is no such word, appopriate isn't it?)

Pooling was supposed to pool all returns, because we all love each other sooooo much that we are willing to share everything, I think it works this way, right?

What about the $18.00/t premium paid by the flour mills to the Soft White Wheat guys, why isn't that put in the pools?

I don't understand how this system can be justified, sort of being half pregnant, isn't it?

If I supported the Monopoly, then I could have had my premium too!

Isn't this how the mafia and biker gangs work?

Is this really fair, and a commercially responsive responsible system?

[TOM4CWB]

Chas,

I am sure that a pound of wheat in Canada is a pound of wheat in the US.

Highway weights in the US are in pounds, and when I weigh my truck in Canada, it still weighs the same in the US.

When it comes to pounds per bushel, I did not find that to be a problem when delivering, CWES, CPS or CWRS, they all made 60 pounds per bushel, every load. I did not notice any significant difference in bushel weight quality betweeen Canada and the US, barley as they have mentioned is very different.

When I unloaded 60,000 lbs of wheat, I got paid for 1000bu.

[ianben]

Thanks Charlie
Warbutons is a family run bakers est. 1876 and bake their bread to a traditional resipe. There is no mention of the source of the wheat on the label.
They supply all supermarkets and small shops. Thier bread is always the most expensive, usually twice own brand loaf.
I buy it because it tastes the way I expect bread to taste, but then I was born just after the war when all bread was made from Canadian wheat.
They can make bread from other wheats now but they are harder somehow and have a different taste.
How does the CWB agree to this extra payment?
Is it because there is some form of tracability?
That is what they want from us but for FREE!!!

Regards Ian

[parsley]

Oats in US is 32 lbs.

Oats in Canada is 34 lbs

Parsley

[charliep]

Ianben

My understanding is the CWB doesn't control the extra payment but rather allows it to happen. The CWB simply stands aside (recognizing the base grade/protein price is still in the CWB pricing pool) and allows Warbutons (with the domestic grain companies they deal with) to establish premiums for quality and variety specific hard red spring wheat. Traceability back to the farm gate is important to Warbutons and the system allows them to have this (at a cost). The farm manager has extra requirements to grow this product for which they are being paid.

As you can tell from previous notes, there will be discussion.

[TOM4CWB]

Charlie,

I did some checking on US bushels and they are Winchester, 2,150.42 cubic inches, 32 US dry quarts, or 35.42 liters.

The US grading tables say #1 is 60lbs/bu, and #2 is 58lb/bu.

What I found more interesting was the Hard Red Spring wheat category definitions!

Dark Northern is 75 percent or higher hard viterous kernals (HVK), Northern Spring is 25 to 75 percent HVK and Red Spring is under 25 percent HVK.

In Durum, they use the same type of system using grade names to identify quality, rather than numbers!

The US system is much easier to sell to a customer than the Canadian one.

In Canada, a wheat with less than 25 percent would often be feed wheat, but in the US it is named Red Spring wheat.

If I am a merchant selling a product made out of these two grades, which one is easier to sell to the consumer?

I would say the answer is obvious!

Flour made from US #1 Red Spring Wheat, sound much better than flour made from Canada #3CWRS or Canada Feed Wheat, even though both are exactly the same lot of wheat.

We can learn much from the Americans, and be better marketers if we take their best ideas and improve on them!