Harper miscalculates

[chuckChuck]

You got to wonder what Mr. Harper was thinking when he didn't even have the sense to offer Canadians a hopefull messsage about a stimulus package. Could have said, work in progress, details have yet to be finalized, we will be there for you, leaving lots of room to figure this out. Instead Flaherty pretends that we will have a balanced budget when many economists are calculating a deficit. Flaherty loses his credibilty. Harper succeeded in giving the oposition a golden opportunity to dump him. To cap it all off Harper couldn't miss the "economic crisis" opportunity to finacially cripple his political opponents by changing the funding rules so he can easily dominate in the next election. Surprise, surprsie the opposition parties are not going to vote for the Harper economic update that includes a poison pill. Harper is looking long on partisanship and short on good political sense. Perhaps he forgot he has only a minority. Almost 2/3rds of Canadians voted for someone else.

[TOM4CWB]

Chuckchuck,

ARE YOU BLIND?

You said: "offer Canadians a hopefull messsage about a stimulus package..."

http://news.sympatico.msn.ctv.ca/abc/home/contentposting.aspx?isfa=1&feedname=CTV-TOPSTORIES_V3&showbyline=True&date=true&newsitemid =CTVNews%2f20081128%2fautos_restructuring_081128

So our Industry Minister Clement, and Minister Bryant as the Auto industry to submit a plan... by Dec. 5th... on how they can resolve their problems?

Instead you think it would be responsible for PM Harper to dump my/your children's money into a auto 'black hole' with these companies that have been trading AUTOjunk bonds for nearly a decade?

What are you trying to say here?

There are some real and urgent systemic problems that have been CAUSED by governments dumping our money helter skelter into the manufacturing sector... with no real plan to resolve the competitive issues (ie. lack of fuel efficient top notch products such as those provided to the EU/Asia/S. America)...

So we are to just pay the Manufacturing sector to remain uncompetitive?

How much money do you have to put into this black hole 'chuckchuck'?

[LWeber]

Perhaps you forgot that only 10.45% of the consituents in Regina Quapelle voted for you Mr. Flaman. When you combine NDP, LIB and GRN votes in the same area, you still lose.

The poison pill that you refer to disgusts the west. Take a look at online polls over the past few days.

Was it a good political move - No.

Do the Liberals deserve to govern - No.

Dion, Layton and Duceppe will last about as long as a Liberal in Regina Quapelle.

Can you handle 3 elections in six months?

[silverback]

You were whining like a stuck pig about how expensive elections were a couple of months ago "Chuck".

Now it would be ok to spend it again?

Funny how you lefties were crying about your entitlements being removed when the update was first released, but now you have magically shifted into crying that we need to go into deficit and stimulate the economy with borrowed money.

Hypocrites.

[cottonpicken]

Interesting days.

I know this has long odds but.....Could this not lead to the break up off canada?
We are fairly reginalized politically and this economic thing could be the catalyst for all out political civil war.
Anybody else sence this?

[Zaphod]

Here's another scenario. Harper pushes the opposition into taking the reins of govt just as we're heading into recession. Let a coalition show everyone how poorly they would govern, especially with incompetent leaders. They'll take all the blame and the conservatives come out the other side smelling like roses. Even if it's not the plan, it could turn out well for Harper.

[Burbert]

This is terrific, we are finally getting our money's worth out of Ottawa. Enjoy watching fat cats squirming, rubbing their hands together, and puckering. For a change real action, Government in crisis, love it, politicos doom and gloom scenario. We are again staring into the abyss, breakup of Kanada? Governor General, may even have to do something, like yell at Harper and tell him to return to governing. Another election to be called, yahhh, we git vote again, maybe in mid February. Best time to vote, when its really, really, really cold and miserable. Conservatives will do well, cause everyone is soooo peed off at that time year, bills, bills, bills, only the diehards will even bother with election. Harper is so cool, cause there is no plan, nothing else to do, but vote, vote, vote. This could go on, from now, till the end of time, taking our minds off the recession/depression that is roaring down upon us.

[chuckChuck]

I have mixed feelings about who should be bailed out if anyone. Tom you are right the big three auto makers are poor managers and deserve to go down, as their products compared to the Japanese competition are not as good nor meet the needs of the current market. But the worst thing a government can do during a recession or depression is to cut taxes and/or spending because neither effort increases spending as much as a stimulus program aimed at infrastructure,health care or education etc.

The reality is the US economy and much of the developed world's economies were built on a house of cards of too much debt, over spending consumers and a boom that couldn't last.
That will be difficult to change with any stimulus package.

My previous post was really about Harper's misjudgement. Harper is an ultra partisan, when what the country needs is political cooperation. Question the war in Afghanistan and you are Taliban supporter. Dare to shut down a nuclear plant because of saftey rules you must be a liberal. Dare to support a farmer run CWB you must be opposed to freedom.....The pattern is well established and not very effective at encouraging good will or getting things done. Contrast Harper's style with Obama who is going to put republicans in his cabinet. Harper is losing his strategic edge. He stumbled several times in the campaign and lost the majority that was his, considering Dion's weakness. He is doing a good job of helping unite the centre left parties. All because he couldn't resist kicking them when they were down.

Larry W. guess what.......I am not the person you think I am so move on to the substance of the issues.

[chuckChuck]

From the Saturday Globe and Mail:

"Some economists, however, questioned the value of counting on existing – or already announced – tax cuts to give a boost to the economy.

Moves such as the GST reductions “have already given their boost to the economy,” said Douglas Porter, deputy chief economist at BMO Nesbitt Burns Inc.

Some of the coming changes, such as the corporate income tax cuts, “are very welcome,” Mr. Porter said, “but I doubt they're really going to encourage too many businesses to go out on a capital spending spree in the kind of environment we're in.”

More visible stimulus would give the economy a better kick, he said.

While Mr. Porter said he would normally agree with Ottawa's go-slow approach, as it takes time to design a stimulus package properly, “these are not normal times.”

Mr. Porter's colleague at BMO, economist Michael Gregory, said in a report Friday that “stimulus delayed is still stimulus denied during these uncertain economic times.” "

[cottonpicken]

Side note about auto makers.

My brother who has his masters in engineering was working for a high end engine design shop when a rep from gm came in to go over the new pickup truck
specs.

The guys at this place started grilling the rep over things like-why do you have to pull the engine to get at the turbo etc,etc.

The rep finally threw up his hands and said "look these things are designed to fail and are only made to go a few hundred thousand clicks"

Moral of the story-things are playing out for one reason or another.

[TOM4CWB]

chuckChuck,

You hit it dead on:

"the developed world's economies were built on a house of cards of too much debt, over spending consumers and a boom that couldn't last."

Now the bright economists... and liberanos/ND/Seperanoes... want to use exactly this as the solution... that you just rightly stated created our problems in the first place.

The conservatives created the best possible insulation to the economics we are in... and if we were rational people the plan they have laid out gives the quickest turnaround to a prosperous economy.

1. Before we do anything... we must see what the US is actually going to do.

2. Real tax incentives (input tax credits)... that allow profitable business to create better long term competitive advantages... by forgoing some tax over a period of time... is the best possible incentive with the least welfare impact on our economy.

Prosperity to be allowed to make the strong better... and encourage the weaker partners to become stronger and more profitable.

You folks seem to forget that Capital $$$ in this country of Canada is not income tax deductable on the year it is spent... but has a long period of depreciation that often does not come close to matching market value depreciation.

[jensend]

harper has backed down. he'll probably wear a cup after this one!

[AdamSmith]

cotton,

when you see an eastbound train and a westbound train on the same track, heading towards one another at full speed,

you just stand there and watch in amazement

there is nothing you can do except
wait for the carnage to happen and think about what it will be like to tell your grandchildre you were there and watch it all happen.

Have I thought about your scenerio? Yup. And about a hundred other plausable scenerions. Not one of them turns out very good for the people of Canada.

Everyone says it's perfectly constitutional for the opposition to form a gov't after a vote of no confidence. But I think there is a reason why it has only been attempted once. It's because the long term ramifications on the parties that go along with it are very very undesirable. I truly do believe that is exactly what will result here.

Trudeau's NEP will be considered a minor nuisance to the west compared to the way the west will react to this gov't takeover by the libs and dippers.

The Libs chances of ever forming a national majority will be nil for the next fifty years, if as you say the west seperates before then.

[AdamSmith]

oops should read

if as you say the west hasn't seperated before then.

[chuckChuck]

Several posts here and elsewhere have been critical of public funding of the political parties. At 1.95 per vote it is peanuts. Jean Chretian was the one who put the brakes on corporate and union donations and brought in the $1000 per individual maximum. Chretian should have went further and put a cap on campaign spending. Public funding is the fairest way of fundraising. Otherwise you end up with a system where those with more money have more influence which is very undemocratic. Of course many Conservatives would prefer corporations having more influence.