Canada First -- Good for Danny Williams

[Barleyman]

I don't allways agree with everyone on this site and right now not with Adam Smith. We have import tarriff rates on canola, occasionaly wheat and barley. Countries like South Korea use bull#### reasons to block cattle sometimes pork, The U.S. has organizations and politicians that exist only to block trade. Just seize the 40 billion dollar investment in the oilsands by S Korea, and tell them no more trade barriers for any Canadian exports or you can kiss your investment goodbye. Our taxpayers will thank you. If they don't like it, then invest in Iran, Libya, Venezula or some other unstable part of the world. The Fed. Gov't will only have to do it once and every country will listen. We have a stable democracy with lots of oil, uranium timber etc. Be a Gov't with backbone looking out for all Canadians,not some spineless Liberal or Ndp pretender. Far too many of my neighbours farming have been set back by a loss of income by tarriffs or blockades on their production. Canada first everyone else second.

[liberty]

The last thing our economy needs right now is to spark a worldwide trade war. One of the main causes of the Great Depression was a devastating contraction in international trade caused by massive increases in tariffs across the world.

If we "seize" South Korea's assets in the oilsands, which is a clever euphemism for stealing them, South Korea will retaliate by banishing Canadian ag products from its market altogether. Since Canadian farmers export around 80 percent of what they produce, how on earth will this benefit us?

Not to mention the fact if we implemented these policies, no foreign investor will touch Canada with a twenty foot pole for many years, out of fear that what Canada might do to South Korea it might do to someone else. As for Canadian investors, they will pull capital out of Canada as fast as they can for the same reasons.

[AdamSmith]

You know through this entire zhit storm in the economy from our own fallen grain prices and high fert. cost then on through the attemped coalitions coup and the resulting billions of my childrens money going to be thrown down the stimulus rat hole, I've always seem to think that calmer heads would prevail once the turbulance settles down.

But after seeing Danny's solution and discovering all the cheerleaders for that "way", I truly am unsettled.

The capitalist system of private ownership, and private production is being buffeted by the natural turbulence of pushing harder than it could sustain, just as your trucks engine would if you ran it at 6000 rpm for 1000 miles without letting your foot off the gas. The first parts to go are the ones that are weak and already worn out but never been replaced, and if you still keep it floored at that 6000 rpm, the whole damn thing will fly apart.

So when it does we say the engine is bad and we need a different engine that won't fly apart. But there is nothing wrong with the engine. If you replace the worn out parts with new ones and if you change the oil when you should and don't run it with unknown additives in the fuel and run it at normal operating speed the engine will last forever.

This "turbulence" is healthy for our economies and is neccessary, but we have people at the ready, willing to throw out the foundations of our society and our economic prosperity. They are ready to chuck the principle of private property and the protection of that private property out the window.

If you want a true "Depression" a 25% - 30% unemployment depression, then keep cheering Danny and his solutions on. Private investment will run for the hills or at least where the investor will know that his wealth won't be confiscated, industries that can leave, will leave. Industries that can't will just quit making investments and no banker worth his soul will lend to any business because the collatoral may just end up being "expropriated" and the bank won't get paid back.

Once you impose "civic duty and job creation" as the primary role of business, your already doomed. The risks become just too great for anyone to even attepmt, and the rewards will be close to nill. Industry will just die.


Take CP and CN, we've regulated their allowable revenue because? Their big? They owe it to us? We (someone other than them have decided what's fair and just and appropriate) And we never see another CP or CN rail car built, the good old taxpayers will pick up the tab again after these cars are worn out, well their worn out now but just like our roads the government won't get around to replacing them for another twenty years. I've often wondered why CN and CP even bother, their is no incentive to be efficent and timely, there is no incentive to improve, why don't they just quit like Abitibi Bowater.

That mill site and that asset will never operate again, no one will touch it with a ten foot pole, because the risks having your investment taken would be just too great.

But take heart, a great and wonderful "system" was developed in Europe about 90 years ago, and don't disparage because it's failed everywhere it's been tried, it may just work here.

[jensend]

canada is one of the easiest places for foreign investors to make money. look at the low royalty rates on oil and gas compared to norway, britain, or pretty much anywhere else. in effect, we have given away too much of our resources. williams, as a businessman, recognizes this and knows how to deal with business. harper, as a dirtbag politician, recognizes it also and knows he can get money from big business. witness the recent row over campaign funding. williams has the support of his constituents - who actually own the resource. who else should he be working for? how has foreign investment in the forestry sector worked out? if it's a bad place to do business fine leave but don't expect to hang on to control over publicly owned resources. we'll see lawsuits over this but it's time the pendulum swung back. opinions i've seen say newfoundland, or any other province, has wide powers of expropriation under the constitution.

[AdamSmith]

jensend, the timber rights are the property of the province, and what Danny did there was appropriate, but what was inappropriate is expropriating the mill and the hydro generating station(which was owned by the company)

This is the private property I'm talking about, and if your ok with that, where does it stop? or is all private property fair game? As long as the people say go Danny go, its ok?

You seem to be advocating letting politicians rewrite the rules at their whim so long as you agree with them on one hand but sniff and sneer at others who do the same thing but on issues you don't?

If you people are advocating the elimination of private industry then just say so, and don't hide behind your venom and hatred for one man (harper. Because PM's and Premiers come and go, but the legacy of poor decisions made in anger and hatred can last generations.

Your cheering Danny and his "way" today will you be cheering when Petro Can or some of the other oil company pulls out because of the poor business climate?

So then they are left with either no industry (third world status) or state owned industry and we all know how successful our crown corps are.

Because any good businessman knows that the true secret to success is having a blind hatred for anyone who dares think they can make a profit and wants to retain that profit. The only good and noble wealth is wealth that is publicly owned and shared amoungst "people"

"Workers of the World Unite"

Jeeze I always thought you lefties were just goofy, but now I'm begining to think you guys are a clear and present danger to our society.

And judging by the public opinion poles after the the attempted coup, I am comforted knowing that most Canadians also see the ultra lefties as a clear and present danger as well.

[jensend]

williams' legislation allowed for compensation for the physical facilities built by abitibibowater.

[AdamSmith]

So? who decides that? Williams?

From what I understand AB was trying to negotiate but Danny was not going to have any of that, it was going to be my way or the highway.

And so he just "took" the assets and said you'll get what we determine their worth. Kinda like the cwb.

But now ol Danny's kinda blustered his way into a corner, if he undervalues the assets (to the delight and cheers of the lefties) he's told all other industries that NL assets are really only worth 50 cents on the dollar. So if you invest 100 mil your asset is really only worth 50 mill. Not good for future investment in NL.

Or they pay full market value in which case NL has gained nothing other than still scaring future investment and letting down the leftie cheerleaders who want to stick it the corps.

Or they pay over value in order to earn back the confidence of private industry and private investment but end up right where they would have been anyway.

No matter which route he takes, he's probably done more harm than good for the people of NL, not to mention the harm to all of Canada because of the trade implications.

I assure you, long term, this is nothing to cheer about.

[FarmRanger]

Well stated AdamSmith. Thanks for pointing out the shortsighted folly of chasing away investment and wealth creation via government enforced theft.

Oh and jensend, Harper isn’t the one who gets big corporate donations, that was the Liberals. At least it was, before Chretian axed that source of revenue for political parties, apparently to spite Paul Martin.

[jensend]

these companies come here to make money and they know they are coming to a politically stable, business friendly (yes, really) environment with good infrastructure and ready made markets through our trade agreements. why give it all to them? other countries can charge higher royalties and the development still occurs. of course the businesses have fiduciary duty but our politicians should have a duty to the people of canada. this bend over and take it attitude is what has made agriculture in canada what it is.

[AdamSmith]

Today's politicians don't understand duty. There will be 308 of them go into the H of C in Jan. and burden our children with billions of new debt. That's not duty that's just theft.

Danny boy may have just burderned his province back to "have not" status with his megalomaniac move. (Time will tell on that one)

A politicians duty is not to be santa clause, the easter bunny and the tooth fairy all wrapped up in one.

A politicians duty should be to protect private property from expropriation, ensure and enforce fair and just laws that protect it's citizens, ensure the availability of certain essential services and public infrastructures.

Thats it. But our society seem to want much more, but there is only one source of revenue and thats the people themselves. The govt has no money it's all the peoples money. So Canadians need to decide, do they want to live in a society where they decide what to do with most of their money or do they want others to decide. Thats the issue because one way or the other if people want certain things they have to understand that it's them that have to pay.

But the lefties want all the stuff but don't want to have to pay for it, so they rationalize that its ok to make others pay.

It really is sad to see how far Canada has fallen into the entitlement mentality.

[TOM4CWB]

AdamSmith,

Our economy as set up and operational today is a paradox in itself.

The North American Economy... drives over half of the Global economy.

And 70% of the North American Economy... is driven by the 'consumer' economy.

If we here don't spend... the global economy is in trouble.

China is in trouble.

India is in trouble.

Japan is in trouble.

The Arab oil states are now in trouble.

Now the Russkies are smashing at anyone who might look at them out of the corner of their eye... ready to take them out.

Danny is doing what the Russkies are doing... no doubt there.

In the end... it is a bluff game (Danny's game)... to see who will blink first!

It certainly makes interesting and entertaining politics!

Even PM Harper has been entertaining this winter!!!

You have got to love this country!!!

[furrowtickler]

Danny has it right, Canada has what the rest of the world needs - despertly(oil,gas,grains,oilseeds,water,uraniun,ec t), the world can not exist with these basic things. Russia is in the same boat. Time is on our side not theirs! The U.S. is missing three major things and they Know it, water,(oil/gas) and uranium. They need to be reminded of that!