Timely CWB Final Payment

[GrainBeetle]

Sounds like this "non-commmunist" wants to SHARE his wealth of knowledge for the betterment of fellow Agrivillian comrades.

Truly, not a capitalist.

You need to talk to Franny, he will teach you.

[TOM4CWB]

Grainbeetle;

I understand you believe the theory of collectivism is key to solving our problems.
Do you not hold that man is not an end to himself, but is only a tool to serve the ends of others? Don't you hold that the group as the primary, and the standard of moral value? Does it matter whether that group is a dictator's gang, the nation, society, the race, (the) god(s), the majority, the community, the tribe, etc.?

Isn't the point you make that I in principle am to be the sacrificial victim, whose only value is my ability to sacrifice my happiness for the will of your "group"?

[classicalliberal]

I swear, what I meant to say is that I don't believe in communistic/socialist marketing. I just forgot to put "don't." Do you think a communist uses the futures market to lock in profits? Communists are not supposed to make any profits and any that they do have to be shared with the next guy who didn't do anything to deserve those profits.

[classicalliberal]

TOM4CWB, you sound like my kind of guy. Pro-business, progressive, capitalistic, etc. If you are interested, I do some blogging on the CBC CWB articles. Some of those farmers, or those who claim to be farmers, are pretty socialist. I think they must be members of the National Farmers Union with Wayne Easter and Stewart Wells. I have been accused of being an Americanized corporate farm owner who is un-Canadian for not believing that the CWB is the best thing for farmers since Round-up (minus the initial costs of it). I would like your help in taking on these commies.

Here are the links:

Canadian Wheat Board Election Results Announced
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/saskatchewan/story/2008/12/08/canadian-wheat-board.html?ref=rss

Some Prairie Farmers Smiling After Final Wheat Board Payment

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/story/2008/12/17/wheat-board.html

[Jay-mo]

There's nothing wrong with sharing information and working together provided that each individual in the group is better off in the end then they would have been not sharing and working together.
The problem with the CWB is that it often punishes those who could do their own marketing and rewards those who just haul in their grain and then sit on their hands.

[agstar77]

Anytime you disagree with someone's views , just resort to name calling and insults. That type of discussion is not welcome . If you have something of relevance, feel free otherwise keep it to yourself.

[classicalliberal]

I don't think that I have called anyone names or anything.....yet. maybe I have an haven't known. If I did I appologize.

[TOM4CWB]

Agstar77,

"Anytime you disagree with someone's views , just resort to name calling and insults. That type of discussion is not welcome . If you have something of relevance, feel free otherwise keep it to yourself."

OUCH!!!


Did we 'strum' a cord of truth... did it hurt your pride?

Or did your 'common sense' connection with the earth... jab you?

[TOM4CWB]

ClassyLiber;

Don't mind Agstar77... he just has the Christmas 'humbugs'!

Intimidation is a key tool used in the CWB's campaign against common sense and respect for one another's property!

[agstar77]

Seems like a common thought, anyone who questions the free market is labelled a commie. This seems to be more of an american ruse when applied to opposition to government policy. try to diminish others opinions by linking them to the big bad bogeyman.

[classicalliberal]

When I blog, I like to use quotes from academics that I have read and highly respect because they have more clout and frankly say it better than me.

"Every friend of freedom must be as revolted as I am by the prospect of turning the United States into an armed camp, by the vision of jails filled with casual drug users and of an army of enforcers empowered to invade the liberty of citizens on slight evidence." Milton Friedman, economist.

"Columbus did not seek a new route to the Indies in response to a majority directive." Milton Friedman, economist.

"Most economic fallacies derive from the tendency to assume that there is a fixed pie, that one party can gain only at the expense of another." Milton Friedman, economist.

"The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom." Milton Friedman, economist.

"A claim for equality of material position can be met only by a government with totalitarian powers." Friedrich Von Hayek

"Even the striving for equality by means of a directed economy can result only in an officially enforced inequality - an authoritarian determination of the status of each individual in the new hierarchical order." Friedrich Von Hayek

Here is a good one for the CWB.
"If we wish to preserve a free society, it is essential that we recognize that the desirability of a particular object(farmer profitability and ability to make a living, CL) is not sufficient justification for the use of coercion." Friedrich Von Hayek

"A government is the most dangerous threat to man's rights: it holds a legal monopoly on the use of physical force against legally disarmed victims." Ayn Rand

"Do not ever say that the desire to "do good" by force is a good motive." Ayn Rand

"Government "help" to business is just as disastrous as government persecution... the only way a government can be of service to national prosperity is by keeping its hands off. " Ayn Rand

"If any civilization is to survive, it is the morality of altruism(the practice of unselfish concern or devotion to the welfare of others, CWB, Co-operatives) that men have to reject." Ayn Rand

"Individual rights are not subject to a public vote; a majority has no right to vote away the rights of a minority; the political function of rights is precisely to protect minorities from oppression by majorities (and the smallest minority on earth is the individual). Individual rights are the means of subordinating society to moral law" Ayn Rand

"The only freedom which deserves the name is that of pursuing our own good, in our own way, so long as we do not attempt to deprive others of theirs, or impede their efforts to obtain it." John Stuart Mill.

"Every individual...generally, indeed, neither intends to promote the public interest, nor knows how much he is promoting it. By preferring the support of domestic to that of foreign industry he intends only his own security; and by directing that industry in such a manner as its produce may be of the greatest value, he intends only his own gain, and he is in this, as in many other cases, led by an invisible hand to promote an end which was no part of his intention." Adam Smith

"It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest." Adam Smith

"Public services are never better performed than when their reward comes in consequence of their being performed, and is proportioned to the diligence employed in performing them." Adam Smith

"I have never known much good done by those who affected to trade for the public good." Adam Smith

"To cure the British disease with socialism was like trying to cure leukaemia with leeches." Margaret Thatcher.

"Entrepreneurs and their small enterprises are responsible for almost all the economic growth." Ronald Reagan

"No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth!" Ronald Reagan

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill


All of these quotes are geared toward the benefits of a free society, free of coercion and the will of the majority, and that the freedom to choose and benefit from our labour is the essence of a free and prosperous society. To enforce upon the minority laws, rules and regulations under the auspices of doing good for society (CWB for the benefit of farmers) only hampers the entrepreneurial spirt and competition that truly benefits all involved.

Sorry if this is preachy and quote happy.

[classicalliberal]

The top quote was supposed to be this.

This is the major reason why we call those who like the CWB, but wouldn't consider themselves socialists or communists, socialists and communists. They might not be but some of their beliefs are.

"A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself." Milton Friedman.


Here is one that anti-board people will agree with:
"I think that nothing is so important for freedom as recognizing in the law each individual’s natural right to property, and giving individuals a sense that they own something that they’re responsible for, that they have control over, and that they can dispose of. " Milton Friedman

"A society that puts equality - in the sense of equality of outcome - ahead of freedom will end up with neither equality or freedom. The use of force to achieve equality will destroy freedom. On the other hand, a society that puts freedom first will, as a happy by-product, end up with both greater freedom and greater equality. Freedom means diversity but also mobility. It preserves the opportunity for today's less well off to become tomorrow's rich, and in the process, enables almost everyone, from top to bottom, to enjoy a richer and fuller life." Milton Friedman

I absolutely love Milton Friedman, he is the 20th century economist and from his influence in the 1970s and 1980s has led hundreds of millions of people out of poverty in the developing world.

[agstar77]

And I thought T4 and Parsley were long winded. They will have to upgrade the site for sure now!! Ho!Ho! Merry Christmas and Happy hanukkah!

[TOM4CWB]

ClassyLiber,

Much interesting info... and the more we launch into collective and socialist bail out spending... the more we learn that banks are monopolies created to feather their own nests!

Bonuses and megashare options... for providing the opportunity to extend credit... to folks who own the money in the first place... is just plain wrong.

This is why local credit unions have often been great tools of finance... and provide a great community spirit... and focus!

Agstar77... I have a lemon you could suck on... if that would help sweeten you up!

GRIN!

[classicalliberal]

The problem with cooperatives is that they sometimes enter into businesses and things that they shouldn't do, subsidized by the sucessful parts of the business, because some of the managers and board of directors think that they should be in that business but they only have their $10 membership share and not any personal investment at risk. This happened in our community in the retail fertilizer business. The local coop that was selling gas and chemical decided that it wanted to be in the retail fertilizer business because several of the farm members though they were paying too much for fertilizer even though there are about 5 other fertilizer dealers in a 30 mile radius, two of them independents. No private or public enterprises would enter the business in the industry because of the competitive pressure. They lost hundreds of thousands of dollars per year undercutting other legitimit businesses to the point that two of them have liquidated their assets and now there is only 3 fertilizer dealers left. They are also don't do well when they enter into the grain business. If they make money handling grain, then the farmer cooperative members think that they are making too much money and try to run them at cost, rather than trying to make profits with it and a return for the investors. Besides, by basis trading, you don't even have to take a handling margin, all you have to do is pick up the carries in the market and buy when the basis is weak and sell it when it is strong and you still make money. That is the some of the problems of cooperatives and why they have a hard time being successful. There is not enough direct ownership in it and it causes people to make un-business like decisions.