The dreams of a free market die not with a bang but with a sad pathetic whimper

[allspice]

Hopperbin presents an interesting contradiction. He wants a federal government with 36.27% voter support to stay in power at all costs, but he is calling the coalition, which could boast considerably higher voter support, a gang. What would you call a prime minister who is intent on (bullying?) the 55% of CWB supporters into submission? Do you want democracy or do you want a dictatorship. Be careful what you wish for. Mr. Harper may some day decide to rule against your whims. Will you support his disregard for democracy then? I am not what you could call a staunch wheat board supporter, but I do support democracy. I also wonder who you will turn to for help next time the US slaps on import duties when you try to access their markets. Did the government of the day helps farmers overcome that unfairness? Do you think Mr. Harper would help? Or are you willing to hire the battalion of lawyers you might need with your own resources? Maybe farmers should look a little farther into the future before dismantling the CWB. Do you believe the Harper drivel that a voluntary CWB with no money of their own, and no export terminals, could actually be in a position to compete with ADM et al?

[parsley]

Well, allspice, "the CWB with no money of their own, and no export terminals," will probably do as they now do...turn it over to the likes of their current Accredited exporter, Gordon Machej, who also has no export terminals of his own.

Parsley

[Hopperbin]

Allspice cut this Harper bullying crap because he technically cannot be a bully.
His gov't is a minority and needs majority support to pass anything. What the hell does the block have any concern of Western Canada? What the hell happened to the majority vote to end monopoly on barley? Harper is not the same man he was and the other parties are just a bunch of ass holes.

[TOM4CWB]

AdamSmith,

I IN NO WAY... SPEAK FOR THE CONSERVATIVE PARTY OF CANADA.

WHAT I HAVE SAID I HOPE IS COMMON SENSE...

GIVING THE BLOC THE VETO IS TREASON... THOSE GUYS SHOULD NOT EVEN BE IN OUR PARLIAMENT. THEY WON'T SING OUR NATIONAL ANTHEM... AND ENTER PARLIAMNET AFTER IT HAS BEEN OPENED... AND AFTER THE ANTHEM HAS BEEN SUNG... WITH SMUG GRINS ON THEIR FACES.

NOW THAT (BLOC SYMBOLISM) IS THE KIND OF POLITICAL TERRORISM... THAT I CAN NEVER EXCUSE AS CANADIAN.

THIS IS MY OPINION... AND AS WE FOUND OUT... THE VAST MAJORITY OF CANADIANS AGREE WITH ME.

[agstar77]

Didn't Harper make Quebec a Nation? Now you call everybody else traitors? Hmmm.

[allspice]

Hopper, I have absolutely no allegiance to any political party. I am not suggesting we would be any better off with any of the others, but your suggestion that 45% were being bullied is exactly what happens when majority rules. The other option is anarchy. I agree with TOM that the bloc should not even be allowed to stand as a federal party because there is nothing "federal" about them.

I repeat that i am not a die hard CWB supporter, but neither do I support a prime minister who muzzles the CWB so he can advertise his position at taxpayers' expense. Neither do I support a prime minister who removes a senior CWB official for no better reason than he vehemently disagrees with him. The list goes on ... Will you personally guarantee that Harper would not be a bully if he was in a majority situation? The only thing that saves him from that definition is that "technicality" you mention. Regarding the barley vote, you can interpret and 3 way vote however you want. I will respect a yes/no vote regarding the CWB single desk. You obviously only read Mr Harper's interpretation of that vote. 13.8% wanted only open market while 37.8% wanted only the CWB. 86.2% wanted a combination, or only the CWB, while 62.2% wanted a combination or no CWB. 48.4% voted for a combination. Where is your majority? You cannot certainly say anyone had a majority because you have no idea how people would have voted in a fair yes/no vote.

[chaffmeister]

Allspice:

You know not of what you speak.

Where does the figure of “55% of CWB supporters” come from? When we talk of CWB reform, we are only talking about getting rid of the single desk (but you knew that because you talk about a voluntary CWB). Keep that in mind when you talk about the different options.

Your math doesn’t add up. To get your 86.2% that supposedly wanted “a combination”, you are adding those that want the CWB just as it is (supporting the single desk) and those that want an open market including the CWB (supporting a voluntary CWB – which by definition means definitely NOT supporting the single desk). You can’t add these two to get where you went. Totally illogical.

Your 62.2% number is the number that wants to get rid of the single desk - they only differ in their approach of whether the CWB should actually play a role. But they agree on the key issue - NO SINGLE DESK.)

The last survey the CWB has done and made public shows only 42% support the single desk on wheat and 27% support it in barley – with the “three way” question. As for your “fair yes/no vote, 57% supported the single desk in wheat and 40% supported the single desk in barley.

The US trade actions on wheat (all of them) have been against the CWB, not Canadian exports. Period.

A voluntary CWB would not need export terminals. I’ve heard of a company in Europe that has no physical assets but trades more malt barley than the CWB. By your logic this shouldn’t happen. But it does – more than you might think.

I like facts. Preferably indisputable facts. What facts do you have that support your comments? I’m not asking what you believe. I’m asking why you believe it.


BTW – there’s much more to the firing of “a senior CWB official” than you apparently know.

[Kodiak]

allspice,

You and I share a disdain for bullies. Bullies are people who have a predilection for abusing others until they think and behave just like they do. Unless you believe what they believe and are part of their system of enforcing their beliefs, you can become a target of their tactics when in any way they deem you to have threatened them.

So I have some questions. What would you call a group who insists, despite your objections, on controlling aspects of your life and your business which you would like to control yourself? What would you call an organization who forced you to participate and comply - using your property - in their schemes and enforcement techniques when you prefer or need to operate on an independent level? What if you had to pay them to be part of their scheme, and pay them more if you wanted not to be part of it? What if that organization was even legally able to use intimidation and harassment tactics to force your compliance in their schemes? Would that not be a “legal bully”? Would the government then not be in a situation where they were complicit in the bullying? What would you think of a Prime Minister and his government who tried to deal with that organization in a way so as to remove its power to bully?

A second part to this. I assume you want to operate your farm business and take advantage of opportunities to bring you and your family a better future. But what if your neighbours decide collectively that they don’t want you to do that. What if by their actions they force and subject you to the enforcement tactics of the organization I describe above? Aren’t they bullies too?

One final question for you. Where do you fit in the picture above?

[cottonpicken]

Substitute the word bully to politician in kodiaks above statement.

And thats how i feel.

Why pick on the bloc?

Their fighting for themselves.

Why dont we have a regional party fighting fo us?

Does that couple of times of year when you here o'canada make you teary eyed enough to think insanely that the east coast of canada is super important to your day to day activities and it really makes a difference that we all fly under one banner?

Or does this nationalist fever come from hockey night in canada?

And if you ever descide to play "hardball" with the wealth sucking eastners-trust me your going to want a few bullies on your side.

[TOM4CWB]

Cottonpicken,

I challenge you to get around our great nation... I took the George Morris Centre CTEAM training... and learned a great deal about Canada.

We DO have the greatest nation on earth... PERIOD.

AND this nation is worth fighting for... a conclusion those who fought the many wars that were fought... and a huge number died for... the freedom you and the Bloc claim as your own.

You are clearly entitled to your opinions... as are those in the BLOC who have vowed to destroy Canada.

I don't feel one iota guilty... in defending the honour of those who have shed their blood and died for our nation... to allow us to be in the position we CAN even be having this debate now!

When I was younger... I did think as you did... and I understand why. I went to hockey games in the late 1990's... where I could not sing our Canadian anthem... because I was so angry and frustrated because of what our security forces did to me... and the deception and intimidation used by the CWB... to shut me up... because I am a real and present threat... that knows the corruption they cling to... to maintain power.

I certainly welcome your questions... they are not unreasonable... in fact my dear better half... and many of my neighbours do agree with you!

We can grow... and learn... as our life experiences... gather in our souls... and change who we are!