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Reality... GET A GRIP...Quit whining about the budget

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    Reality... GET A GRIP...Quit whining about the budget

    "Quit whining about the budget
    Colby Cosh, National Post, Published: Friday, January 30, 2009



    Maybe I'm getting old. I'm having trouble working up the same chest-thumping outrage over the new federal budget that other conservative, libertarian and generally just plain crusty commentators have displayed. Could it be a sign of declining testosterone? A side-effect of medication? I share the canonical right-wing view that deficits are a bad thing, but I feel puzzled at the surprise so many are exhibiting over the discovery that we do not have a right-wing government -- that the Conservatives, in the House of Commons as it is currently constituted, must meet some other party's criteria to obtain support for a budget. Surely we all did the math the morning after the election?

    There does seem, at times, to be genuine confusion about this. The hypothetical Liberal-NDP-BQ coalition government is so palpably unpopular a concept in English Canada that the Conservatives, having presented a budget that will inflate government spending 9% in one year, are perhaps being blamed implicitly for kowtowing unnecessarily to an empty threat. I can barely began to list how many factors this assessment overlooks. But let us try.

    Deficits are rightly unpopular with the public, but in the specific circumstances of a global economic contraction and falling commodity prices, they are not unpopular with economists. It is a conservative principle that a government should, barring unpleasant surprises, spend within its means and take no more from the taxpayer than it can use; occasional deficits follow from this premise. It must not be much fun for Jim Flaherty to have to announce one, but it was simply shameful for him to be heckled in the House by the opposition, as he was, when he pointed out the indisputable fact that economic forecasts are inherently subject to uncertainty. And, as Nassim Taleb would want me to point out here, it's not even a well-behaved, cleanly Gaussian type of uncertainty.

    The least conservative way to deal with an economic crisis coupled with a looming deficit is to raise taxes. The Conservatives did not do this: they cut taxes and faced the music. Had there not been extra spending to go along with the tax cuts, they would have been butting up against the consensus of the economics profession -- and yet the stimulus package we got is much smaller than that of the United States, and comports with those pledged by European governments, who are starting out with much higher debt burdens.

    The package looks even better if we factor out spending that was inevitable in the future anyway. There are no ambitious new social programs in this budget of the sort that the NDP or the Liberal left wing would have forced down our throats. We got a home renovation tax credit instead of thousands of new social housing units for the working poor. We're getting bridge upgrades and electronic health records instead of nationalized child care. In general, the state is hastening to meet obligations it has already accepted (for better or worse), not taking on new ones.

    Michael Ignatieff's threat to pull the rug from under the Conservatives was mostly empty, but a threat must be judged by the magnitude of its consequences as well as its likelihood of being carried out. English Canada would have disapproved of Jack Layton being a minister of the Crown with a hotline to Gilles Duceppe. But Quebec would have taken a different view, and right now Quebec is where the low-hanging electoral fruit are. You can't wrap yourself in the Maple Leaf there unless you want it bedecked with egg.

    Stephen Harper no longer faces a Liberal leader that Quebecers despise; Ignatieff has even supported his decision to recognize its "nationhood" for extra-constitutional purposes. And a coalition government could have enjoyed up to the statutory five full years to establish its bona fides and ride out the economic crunch. The exercise might even have ended up in a full merger. In the end, if he had insisted on the principles of the November fiscal update and abandoned Canada to the tender mercies of the coalition, the Prime Minister might well be facing accusations of weakness today from the same people now calling him a sell-out. Having insisted on his right to form a government, he cannot now reasonably recoil from the task of governing. He has forced Ignatieff to accept a share of responsibility for the results of the stimulus without conceding any of the power to administer it.

    Ignatieff seems determined to run as a man who signed up for a coalition, but was never in favour of it, and who passed a budget, but reserves the right to criticize its effects. This is being described with words like "shrewdness." Let's call it what it really is: cowardice and duplicity."

    #2
    Tom your like one of those suicide bombers who never questions the idealogy that is spinning around in his head.

    Comment


      #3
      C.P.;

      I disagree... you folks are the economic terrorists... NOT ME.

      THe more you do this... the more you break down trust... and wreck our economy.

      "After Budget, Conservatives Maintain Nine-Point Lead Over Liberals



      If the government falls, Canadians would prefer to hold a new election than to allow the proposed opposition coalition to take power.



      [VANCOUVER – Jan. 29, 2009] - The federal budget did little to change the perceptions of Canadians on the federal political parties, a new Toronto Star / Angus Reid poll has found. In the online survey of a representative national sample, 38 per cent of respondents (-1) say they would vote for the governing Conservative Party in the next federal election, followed by the Liberal Party with 29 per cent (-1), the New Democratic Party (NDP) with 18 per cent ( 1), the Bloc Québécois with eight per cent (-1), and the Green Party with six per cent ( 1).



      The Tories and the NDP maintain their respective share of the vote in the October 2008 federal contest, the Bloc and the Greens are slightly below their total in the last federal ballot, and the Liberals remain above the 26 per cent they received under Stéphane Dion last year.



      The Tories are still particularly popular in Alberta (72%), Manitoba and Saskatchewan (46%) and British Columbia (44%). The Liberals are just five points behind the Bloc in Quebec (31% to 26%) and have clearly become the second choice in BC, eight points ahead of the NDP. In Ontario, the Conservatives hold an eight-point advantage over the Liberals (41% to 33%)



      KEY FINDINGS

      �� Voting Intention: Con. 38%, Lib. 29%, NDP 18%, BQ 8%, Grn. 6%

      �� 41% say Harper has a clear plan to deal with the economic crisis; 26% say Ignatieff does

      �� 39% have confidence in Harper to find the right solutions for the Canadian economy; 38% trust Ignatieff

      �� 36% think Ignatieff is sensitive to the needs of their province; 32% think Harper is



      Harper and Ignatieff



      The survey, conducted after the Conservative minority government tabled the federal budget, asked respondents about the ability of Prime Minister Stephen Harper and Opposition Leader Michael Ignatieff to deal with the economy. While 41 per cent of Canadians believe Harper has a clear plan to deal with the economic slowdown, only 26 per cent feel the same way about Ignatieff. The Conservative leader also edges the Liberal leader on having a strong team (40% to 31%).



      The two politicians are almost tied when Canadians are asked if they have confidence in them to find the right solutions for the Canadian economy (39% for Harper, 38% for Ignatieff). The Liberal leader holds the upper hand in being sensitive to the needs of provinces (36% to 32%). A majority of Canadians (56%) feel Harper is more interested in his political career than in doing what's best for Canada, and 48 per cent feel the same way about Ignatieff.



      After issuing the budget, at least three-in-ten Canadians perceive Harper as a leader they trust to deal with taxes (35%), boost the national economy (34%), get Canada out of a recession (33%) and minimize the federal deficit (31%). Ignatieff cannot clear the 30 per cent mark in any of these issues.



      Analysis



      Exactly two months after the ill-advised economic statement that almost doomed the Conservative government, the political map finds the five federal parties—with the exception of the Liberals—very close to their level of support in the last federal election.



      The Liberals have managed to sustain positive numbers in Quebec (where they are second to the Bloc) and British Columbia (where they trail the Tories). In these two provinces, the Grits are doing better than they did in the 2008 election. Ignatieff is clearly outperforming his predecessor in head-to-head match-ups against Harper, but many respondents remain unaware or uncertain.



      The Conservatives have a large lead in Ontario, and maintain a commanding advantage in the four Western provinces. The Tory base is satisfied with the budget, and ready to see this government in place for at least another year. The governing party is holding on to 91 per cent of those who supported it last year, even after the first deficit in more than a decade.



      The NDP, in stark contrast to Tories and Grits, is only holding on to 64 per cent of its 2008 voters. Three out of every ten NDP supporters are now backing either of the two main federal parties.



      http://www.angusreidstrategies.com/uploads/pages/pdfs/2009.01.29_PoliBudget.pdf"

      Comment


        #4
        I love numbers to.

        Cons-38%
        libs-29
        ndp- 18
        bloc-8
        grn-6

        =99%

        Number of people who seen economic crisis coming=1%

        Number of investers in inflation protected assets=1%

        Number of people that know what should be done=1%

        Number of people who knew what a dervitive was two years ago=1%

        Number of people who know it doesnt really matter what party you vote for=1%

        Number of people who understand how bad this is going to get=1%

        Comment


          #5
          The tory elite continually thumb their nose at their base, throw all of their principles under the bus, saddle our grandkids with more debt than Trudeau, and have contiually increased the size and cost of government since they've been in power. But the real problem is that I don't have enough faith?Riiiight.

          Comment


            #6
            C.P.;

            And I suppose you are in that 1%.


            Don't you think it might be time to take a 'humble' pill?

            Comment


              #7
              http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090129.wtories30/BNStory/politics/home

              <b>Some of the budget's biggest critics: Tories</b> -BRIAN LAGHI AND STEVEN CHASE

              From Friday's Globe and Mail January 29, 2009 at 9:33 PM EST

              OTTAWA — His biggest threat is supposed to be new Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff, but the sharpest fire being directed at Stephen Harper these days is coming from the rock-ribbed Conservatives that comprise the base of the party he leads.

              The criticism has come from several quarters, including Tom Flanagan, Mr. Harper's close friend and former top aide, and the cadre of young activists who make up a good portion of the party's shock troops. Even one of the country's most affable senior Conservatives, former human resources minister Monte Solberg, has issued warnings.

              They're unsettled over a federal stimulus budget that includes a $64-billion deficit over the next two years and five years of projected red ink.

              “There's a lot of feeling of betrayal. We don't need a second Liberal Party,” said Tasha Kheiriddin, who teaches conservative politics at McGill University.

              “It is extremely frustrating, as a small-c conservative, to look at this.”

              Ms. Kheiriddin, co-author of Rescuing Canada's Right: Blueprint for a Conservative Revolution, said the party's base may decide to stay home in the next election, particularly if the package does not work. “It flies in the face of all the principles Mr. Harper personally held for a number of years, as well as what the movement was hoping this government would achieve.”

              Other key Conservatives agreed.

              “This is survival without any sense of direction,” said Mr. Flanagan, a former Conservative campaign chief.

              Mr. Flanagan said the budget may cause a number of party members to curtail donations.

              “I think it's absolutely essential for the party to keep its core supporters onside, and there wasn't that much in this budget that really speaks to those core supporters,” he said.

              He cited as an example the drop-off in contributions in 2000 for the Canadian Alliance, a forerunner of the Conservative Party, when it began to have troubles under leader Stockwell Day.

              “All these 100,000-plus donors are writing their little cheques because they believe in a cause and – I don't know what's going to happen – but when Stockwell Day got into trouble that was the first really big sign. The money stopped coming in.”

              Mr. Flanagan said Mr. Harper must find low-cost ways over the next few months to animate the troops.

              Meanwhile, Mr. Solberg said in an interview that while he believes the budget is popular, he is concerned that it could lead to long-term deficits. In an earlier newspaper column, Mr. Solberg advised Mr. Harper to use the time he has bought to draft a compelling conservative vision for the future.

              “The Conservatives have easily escaped to fight another day, but what are they fighting for?” he asked.

              Gerry Nicholls, a former colleague of Mr. Harper's at the right-wing National Citizens' Coalition, said he thinks the Prime Minister has lost his way.

              “The Conservative party is conservative in name only. It makes me yearn for the days when we had a relatively fiscally conservative leader like Jean Chrétien,” Mr. Nicholls said, referring to the former Liberal prime minister's victory in slaying the deficit in the mid-1990s and paying down federal debt.

              Others, however, argued that most members of the party's rank-and-file will realize that while there is doubt about the package, the government wasn't in a position to run counter to the stimulative moves of other countries.

              “I don't think there will be very profound grumbling from the conservative wing,” said Roger Gibbins of the Canada West Foundation. “For every person who says that Harper is abandoning his principles, there will be five who will say, ‘Well, principles will only take you so far and you have to be able to have enough flexibility to adapt to the times.'” What's more, he added, most party members have no other place to go.

              Comment


                #8
                Even Flanagan isn't happy, and he's been the biggest cheerleader for moving to the left.

                Comment


                  #9
                  It's doubtful that anyone is going to rush out and start a new conservative political party to challenge the Tories.

                  However, I anticipate that cash donations to the Tories are going to start drying up. One of the things they have done with this budget is to alienate their base. The tax cuts, as Andrew Coyne pointed out, account for only one dollar out of ten spent in this budget. That's not enough to prevent small-c conservatives from sitting on their hands instead of actively supporting this government.

                  Conservatives who support Harper's spending orgy are like the conservative Republicans who supported Dubya's spending orgy for the last eight years. In the end, they paid for it at the polls as Republican voters stayed home in droves and gave the election to the Democrats. Having spent those years claiming that deficits were OK, they can't credibly claim that deficits are now bad just because the Democrats are the ones with control of the chequebook.

                  It looks like Atlas needs to do a lot more shrugging before this is all over.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Tom4cwb, I am sure that there are as many people tire of hearing about the complaining of the budget as there are tired of hearing about you complain about the cwb and cotton bragging about knowing it all.

                    Every one needs to be given there day to talk and vent, lord knows I would like a switch to cut off all the cwb rants that end up in these posts.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Rick Mercer on Tory policy.

                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DUOoWv7wXk

                      It's funny and not funny all at the same time because its true.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Poorboy,

                        It is your right to say this.... and I invite the recognition and proper recognition of the CWB issue.

                        The CWB issue IS A NATIONAL Issue.

                        The property rights folded into CWB confiscations... are NATIONAL TAXATION powers... that ARE NOT applied to any other grain growers... except those who operated inside the 'designated area'.

                        I may bother your conscience poorboy... but perhaps there is a reason why? (Mine is clear)

                        Have a great day... !

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Poorboy;

                          Did you realise the irony of your statement:

                          ..." a switch to cut off all the cwb rants that end up in these posts"

                          Who do you think put this rant on my thread that had nothing to do with the CWB?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            ~`Oh lord its hard to be humble,whennn your perfect in evveryyy way`~~

                            Like i said before.
                            I am not good at most things.
                            Only one.

                            And if you dont want to listen to me,dont.

                            But if you throw a shot at me,and i clobber you back-dont go crying to mommy.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I am only saying that it should be perfectly fine for people to complain/explore, etc on the budget. Why not be allowed to whine away on the budget. My comparison was the cwb subject seems to get whined about steady, just as cotton sets the bar high on his opinions.

                              I do not think it is wrong. I can read/not read the cwb debates or cottons opinions.

                              I just think it is VERY funny TOM4CWB that you post about getting a grip and quit whining about the budget, when most of your posts seem to be whining about the CWB.

                              Comment

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