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Europe in Turmoil

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    #11
    Agstar wrote: "This is all a result of consumate greed both individualy and collectively. There has to be a change in the ethic of the richer societies to redefine what is important and what individual self worth really is defined by."

    Agstar's statement is more than a little vague, but I think he is blaming the problems we face today on the ethics of selfishness. Like so many commentators, he thinks that the investors who set up and financed highly leveraged derivatives, sub-prime loans and so on were motivated by selfishness.

    On the contrary, the economy is declining today because we are involved in an unprecedented orgy of selflessness. The Federal Reserve, along with virtually every other central bank, set about several years ago to prime the monetary pumps with phoney credit, giving impetus to what we now recognize to have been little more than Ponzi schemes. Large numbers of investors selflessly put vast sums of capital at dire risk in order to gamble in the casino that the central banks had set up. Some made money, but most lost badly.

    In a free market, these investors would be left to face the consequences of their own stupidity. But because our society is motivated by the ethics of selflessness, those who made sound investment decisions and who wisely refused to participate in these Ponzi schemes are now being taxed to pay for the mistakes of others.

    While it is unfortunate that so many people are losing their jobs as a result of the chaos brought about by the socialization of investment, those job losses are not the fault of taxpayers in general.

    The proper response to this crisis would be to let these banks and financial entities go broke; their assets could then be bought up at a discount by people who are actually competent to run them. This would be the ethics of selfishness in action.

    These protesters in Europe are largely led by trade unionists, socialists and communists, who steadfastly blame capitalism for this crisis instead of socialist central banking. Rather than cut this crisis off before it balloons, they want to expand it. They don't see anything truly wrong with using force to dole out subsidies and special privileges; the problem as they see it is that the handouts are not being spread about widely enough and "fairly" enough. They believe that the solution is for competent investors to be taxed into oblivion to bail out unwise investors and keep that hallmark of selflessness and sacrifice, the welfare state, functioning at all costs.

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      #12
      Makes a farmer wonder, maybe should just pull the trigger on all stocks in the bin.
      While there is still a profit to be had.
      High prices I think make farmers holders wishing to get back to the highs. I wouldn't exactly start protesting low prices here other than CWB crap and low malt volume sales I would be in there just ask.

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        #13
        You are referring to morality, liberty. I have been documenting the border runners on Parsley's Notebook.

        What is the morality of jailing a farmer for selling his grain?

        I have been talking to a lot of farmers. It used to be we knew right from wrong. Do we in 2009?

        Pars

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          #14
          Maybe you could refresh my memory. Who was jailed for selling their grain? Or was that just a dream you had?

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            #15
            Thirteen men.

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              #16
              Are you just trying to be funny as or are you a cwb denier?

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                #17
                silver back comparing CWB to the Holocaust = incredibly bad taste
                Just as bad as those who say, those who disagree with climate change are also called deniers.

                next is where Agstar starts calling a potato, potato
                We all know his tricks and its good of you to call BS

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                  #18
                  Hey, I have called the cwb and it's proponents a lot of things, but I am pretty sure I didn't equate them to that!

                  Don't put words in my post please.

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                    #19
                    Sorry silverback I never intended to put words in your mouth.

                    I had heard an interview with Dr. Tim Ball on Adler online last summer and he really resented being called a climate change "denier" because of the Holocaust implications.
                    Something that I had never thought about before.
                    I did not want the anti Monopoly side painted with that brush.
                    As it effects arguments made as by convention anyone who invokes Nazis looses an argument.
                    Your arguments are to strong to be beaten like that.
                    see Godwin's law
                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_Law
                    like I said I did not intend to put words in your mouth, but it's something to think about.

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                      #20
                      GUSTG,

                      Good points;

                      I don't like Agstar77's line because of this...

                      The average 'consumer' has the most to lose... and gained the least... from the run up the leveraged poxes created... derivatives that built on greed by those who created and traded them... instead of a need to manage risk and create productive economic value...

                      Bank leverages that sought to build wealth out of thin air... will result in thin air!

                      How can prosperity result for punching a keyboard... selling stupidity... and ripping off those who you claim to serve?

                      Now keep your mouth shut Pars...

                      ( > :{

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