Idiots.

[cchurch]

You guys want choice... the CWB gave you pricing options...you still piss and moan... the CWB loses money because of this risky business...you piss and moan.

Even Cargill lost money from hedging this year so if you are dealing in risky hedging activities in a volatile market you will probably lost money. So stop pissing and moaning like a bunch of 2 year olds.

[Zaphod]

What kind of a pricing option is it when the CWB sets the prices so they can't outdo the PRO? Is that really any alternative at all?

A real pricing option would offer no-cost export licenses. Then we're getting somewhere.

[bucket]

But Cargill can absorb the losses on other enterprises like flour, bakery or others in their business family or the consumer.

The cwb sends that loss directly to farmers.

BIG difference.

[northfarmer]

well, well...........look in the mirror....cchurch...

the ppo's, the "pool protection options" what they really are....even their best incarnation the DPC..are gone...

cargill losing money hedging? where are the numbers i would like to understand them...as a private company they may be more transparent in showing the cost of their hedge program then the CWB.....hedging costs money, it costs money to mitigate risk but any reasonably thought out and executed program will have reasonable cost for this risk mitigation....

I cannot beleive you pooley freiends are not in an uproar that their money, millions of their money, and me too AS I SUPPOSE AS I AM FORCED TO PARTICPATE, WAS SHUFFLED OVER THE COVER THE CONTINGENCY FUND WHEN IT WAS SUCKED DRY....

...fire them all and free us now!!!!

[chaffmeister]

cchurch:

Cargill lost money you say? Where do you get that?

This is from their Q3 results available at: http://www.cargill.com/news-center/news-releases/2008/NA3007634.jsp
(bold type is my emphasis)

“Cargill posted a third consecutive strong quarter in a year in which the dimensions of change in global agriculture are striking,” said Greg Page, Cargill chairman and chief executive officer. “Demand for food in developing economies and for energy worldwide is boosting demand for agricultural goods, at the same time that investment monies have streamed into commodity markets. Relative to demand, world grain stocks today are at their lowest levels in 35 years. Prices are setting new highs and markets are extraordinarily volatile. <b>In this environment, Cargill’s team has done an exceptional job measuring and assessing price risk, and managing the large volume of grains, oilseeds and other commodities moving through our supply chains for customers globally</b>.”

Page said Cargill’s global assets, market insight, diversification and <b>risk management skills have served the company well</b>. “Our business model gives us the wherewithal to remain customer focused in a very challenging operating environment.”

The CWB could learn a great deal from the likes of Cargill.

[Zaphod]

Getting back to the so-called "pricing options", have you ever noticed that as soon as the FPC gets a little higher than the PRO, there is a magic adjustment to the basis to bring the FOC back below the PRO.

The CWB keeps talking about how popular their PPOs are with farmers. That's only because they're the best of a bad lot. It's like saying to a criminal, do you want maximum security or medium security prison. Guess which one they "choose"?

[bucket]

I think if the cwb would just come clean and explain how they lost so much money and that heads were rolling for this inexcusable loss - it would go a long way in saying they actually give a shit about farmers money.

Instead they come out with excuses like "we needed the money to cover our day to day operations" . It makes me wonder how close to broke these guys are. Maybe Ward W should start worrying about his job because this is nothing short of the mess in the financial crisis in the states and the ones responsible are in the same league.

[Fransisco]

It's nice to see a board supporter who actually realizes that the board lost a lot of farmers money this past year.

[Zaphod]

That should be FPC, not FOC.

And yes, I chose the prisoner analogy intentionally.

[Fransisco]

There is a simple solution here. If it is too risky for the board to run the PPO's and it costs too much money, then let the farmers who want to price outside of the pools go.

Start issuing zero cost export licenses. Heck even low cost ones like the organic guys get would do the trick.

[TOM4CWB]

cchurch,

You are a piece of work.

We are 'Idiots' for demanding accountability and a fair transparent cash price.

The CWB are angels for blowing half a billion $$$.

Hmmmm... nice try... but somehow I don't feel one iota guilty. Why should I?

[Kodiak]

cchurch, instead of calling people names, why not contribute to a meaningful discussion. Back up your views with some evidence. Real numbers. Facts.

Chaff, for example, does an excellent job of bringing numbers to light. He doesn't make them up. He uses stuff that's there for all of us to see. He doesn't call people names. He just shines a light on reality.

So dispute his numbers if you have a better source. Show us his math is wrong if you find an error. Something other than name calling.

Get into a debate about what the facts are if you like. Debate ideas if you think somebody else's conclusions are wrong. Name calling just gets you further behind.

[chaffmeister]

cchurch:

You seem to think that the CWB "loses money because of this risky business" of "pricing options".

That was only $89.5 million. What about the $226 million the CWB lost in the pool accounts due to "discretionary commodity trading"?

So the CWB trades futures in the pool accounts. If you want to see the full impact, don't stop at just the $226 million. The pools also got hit with $13 million in interest costs due to margin requirements for commodity hedging activity (page 60).

Also - if anyone can figure out whether the CWB dabbles in "discretionary trading" in forex, please let me know. I haven't found it yet.

Seems trading grain in the pool accounts is "risky business" as well.

Perhaps you thought that pooling removed risk. Nope. You just don't see it.

You all deserve better.

[charliep]

Perhaps cchurch is not aware but the discretionary trading is a process sanctioned and supported by the CWB elected board of directors. Some would call this speculation - will let others comment. The board of directors analyzes this sanctioned descretionary trading results as a performance measure. In 2007/08, these trades cost farmers who delivered to the CWB pooling accounts $226 mln over total deliveries of 21 mln tonnes or $10/tonne. If you want to use the adjusted $169 mln, I would use the pooled volume (excluding PPO contracts) of 16.5 MMT or again a loss of $10/tonne. If you delivered 100 tonnes to the CWB pooling system, discretionary trading took $1,000 out of your pocket. If you delivered 1,000 tonnes, your cost was $10,000.

Read the annual. Attend your local district meeting. Ask questions.

[bgmb]

The point I would like to make is that the cwb, money wise is basically a non issue for most of us compared to the amount of money we lost by not selling more at high prices. We all had the chance to sell as much 10 wheat as we wanted to through the fpc hell they even offer an act of god clause.