Some insight into problems with market economy

[Fransisco]

Looks like I've been out of the loop here for a bit. I want to back up to the subject of so-called free market oil. Take a look at this chart

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:World_Oil_Reserves_by_Region.PNG

Most of the oil in the world is off limits to private companies.

Even in the good 'ol USA there are huge restirictions they have a total of more than the known oil reserves of Iran, Iraq, Russia, Nigeria or Venezuela, respectively off limits.

Anyone who thinks what's going on with oil is the result of a free market, hasn't done their homework.

[Fransisco]

BTW- I've put my definition of Capitalism up, how's about you guys who hate it so much fill us in on what your definition is?

[vagabonddreamer]

actually francisco...the points were with respect to the refining end of things...the point being...there are NEVER differences in the price at the pumps...why is that??? why doesnt the free market drive the price of fuel at the pumps??? and no i dont think the government could do a better job as classylib and you keep alluding to...thats an easy out...to say...the government couldnt do it better...we KNOW that...

its a GOOD thing that the government has SOME sort of control over the actual reserves of oil...dont tell me you think that natural resources should be left to the multinationals to divy up??? i cant IMAGINE if it was just a race willy-nilly to drill holes in the ground by anybody that wanted to...come to think of it...in a FREE market Capitalist system...who WOULD regulate the mess that would happen to natural resources (not just oil)??? when a foreign company purchases land or purchases a canadian natural resource company and comes here to **** the land...who would step in to control the situation?? or are we to assume that oil companies, tobacco companies, mining companies etc...(some of which have a bigger GDP than our entire country)..all have a stellar enough record to police themselves??? the POLICE cant even police themselves!!!! Canada is rich in resources but very poor in Savoire-faire...even with poor government intervention we are still predominently foreign owned and operated...

certainly you must not have thought that one out completely??? vs

[Fransisco]

Okay, now you're back to being a typical paranoid socialist. Take a deep breath and try the following exercise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5513mXmQbw4

When left to themselves buyers and sellers do a much better job of regulating the supply and demand of natural resources. And Private ownership for the most part does a much better job of conservation than does public ownership. When everyone(the public) owns a piece of property no one does and no one is actually responsible for it.

Take a look at the following link on the history of government managed forestry in Canada.(it's a quick read)
http://www.environmentprobe.org/enviroprobe/pridon/chapter9.html

Talk about raping the land!

[tower]

Good call vagabondreamer,

fransisco, I mentioned that I think all the isms are religious at heart. And as with religions, the people who are paid are the ones who extoll the virtues of the brand the most. Like advertising in the sense that you have agencies and consumers. The people that are buying the product are the ones who see how it can benefit them.

Like religion it also has a functional side, making people feel good about themselves and the future, providing rules of conduct for the masses which are largely smiled at by the elite.
Amassing fortunes for those near the top.

I'm not an atheist fransisco, i'm an agnostic. Show me how the system is good.

[Fransisco]

You don't believe the easily verifiable data comparing the closed market government wheat board system and the open market. Why would you believe any other comparisons? And what measurements would you consider proof that the freer and more Capitalistic a society is the better off they are?

[tower]

I would need a proof that is verifiable, one that compares some equally resource filled states, with similar education levels, and looks at the before and after pictures. One capitalist, one socialist, one communist, one bhuddist, a catholic, and probably a couple of others.

[Fransisco]

I can show you evidence that the poorest people in freer more Capitalist countries have higher incomes than the poorest people in less free countries. I can show you that life expectancy is greater,there is a higher standard of living, that there is less corruption and that the environment is better looked after.

Would these be acceptable measurements?

[TOM4CWB]

Interesting Discussion...

I would note that our present government in Canada... has set up the script... to advance a Canadian taxation system... that in provinces like Alberta and Ontario... will have the lowest tax rates of the G20... and perhaps the free world.

There are a very limited number of governance moves the Conservatives can make... it is heartening to see that reducing taxes... has been a very noteworthy acheivement... instead of liberals keeping our income and sliding it out to a select few 'freinds' who met their standards and ethics!'

Conservatives have reduced taxes for many middle class families... in a significant manner!

Minority Governments change governence. It is very hard to argue... that a different Conservative strategy was possible... in these circumstances.

The market economy... with good/proper regulation and governence... can't be beat!

There must be rules... for the rule of law to work!

[Fransisco]

I don't think these criteria "equally resource filled states, with similar education levels" have ever existed anywhere at any time.