Carnies

[pilpilsner]

His name fits his actions.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2009/04/23/9218821-cp.html

[boarderbloke]

There is a little poll question in the left side bar of that story that I got satisfaction, from answering!

[parsley]

"quantitative and credit easing"


That language is too sophisticated for my liking as I'm a 'call a spade a spade' kinda woman.

How about plain old, "Print money" !

Lots of people NEED to keep the cash flowing in.

For example. the CBC needs more cash.

Yes, the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation of Canada executives need to have more money made available, because they cannot, and must not, and willnot(note I ran those two words together) have their lifestyle standards violated:

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/MediaNews/2009/04/22/9200261-sun.html

Keep planting boys. You have a lot of taxes to come up with. Pars

[Fransisco]

The question will become who can print money the fastest. It's a race to the bottom, and I think Obama's going to win.

[Fransisco]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124045610029046349.html

[wd9]

Carnies, small hands, smell like cabbage.... For you, Austin Powers. Ya baby.

But seriously, don't think there has been a good discussion on how ag will weather this recession. Is ag in a good position to do so? Farmers? Inputs industry? .. Which is really gonna bleed after this spring. Exporters?

I think the farmers will do ok. Probably one of the best industries to be in during a recession. Its after where it seems more difficult and wealth shifts back to the others. Thoughts? Negative inflation effects? Capital values? Hmmmm.

[vagabonddreamer]

lol...part of the problem in all of this is that the path was chosen LONG ago...now you have policy makers in all the industrialized nations kinda heading in the same direction when it comes to fiscal policy...to stop mid track now and change would probably send the etire G20 into chaos...but if you COULD hit the delete button...i am curious what (we) the armchair economists...would do differently...and how far back do you think you would have to go to fix the systemic problem???

this would not be a simple two or three word fix...its not just Canada we are talking about...your economic plan has to allow for the changing world economy and the growth of the asian markets and how it impacted credit and policy in Europe and North America...and it has to allow for the psychology of consumerism and the changing needs of a general populace...

no doubt the case at hand is being handled (incorrectly)...at least to some extent...but its too easy (and intelletually bankrupt) to critizise the status quo without offering a viable (viable meaning something short of attilla the hun..lol)...alternative...

i have been muddling this around for some time now...i am still at a loss as to how far back i would have to go to even START changing things...??

what do YOU guys think?? vs

[Fransisco]

VD-"to stop mid track now and change would probably send the entire G20 into chaos..."

Frisco- What makes you think that? And what makes you think that it's better to just follow the herd? Is the herd always right? Or does it just make you feel better to have company?

VD-"its not just Canada we are talking about...your economic plan has to allow for the changing world economy and the growth of the Asian markets and how it impacted credit and policy in Europe and North America...and it has to allow for the psychology of consumerism and the changing needs of a general populace..."

Frisco- Sounds like you're in central planner mode. This is one of the biggest problems, the mindset that you (not you specifically VD) have to control everything, all the time. Economics is like a force of nature, you can build a home that can withstand a hurricane but you're never going to be able to stop the hurricane. Central bankers believe that they can just by printing more money. All they've done is postpone the storm and in all likelihood made it worse.

"no doubt the case at hand is being handled (incorrectly)...at least to some extent..."

No, to a large extent.


"but its too easy (and intelletually bankrupt) to critizise the status quo without offering a viable (viable meaning something short of attilla the hun..lol)...alternative..."

What do you consider the 'Atila the Hun' solution?

VD-"i have been muddling this around for some time now...i am still at a loss as to how far back i would have to go to even START changing things...??"

Frisco- Isn't the better question, what should we do moving forward?

[vagabonddreamer]

absolutely frisco...i agree on many of your points...i wasnt defending what is going on...i was only pointing that it is HERE now...in reality you CANT turn back time to start again..but how would you change things if you could...

what makes me think it would send the G20 into chaos?? ANYTHING you do to go to some sort of control standard at this point...ie...all of a sudden plunge into the goldstandard full speed ahead and damn the torpedos...will cause business and personal bankruptcies hithertofore unseen...job losses and unemployment in the area of 30-50%...now i know it will be short to medium term...but what do you tell those people??

i like your analogy of economics being a force of nature...so...when the red river floods...or the forest fires rage as in okanagan a few years back...SOMEONE in central control was there to help re-build...just as SOMEONE needs to be there to control the hurrciane that would be the economy..(you still are only criticizing my suggestions you are NOT supplying solutions)...it is easy for (you,me,us) to say too bad about the people that fall into the cracks...

and again frisco...you keep saying all is wrong...EVERYTHING everyone is doing is WRONG...but in your entire text you offer NO viable alternative or even the SNIFF of a viable alternative...which was the entire point of my post...

go forward...wow...now THAT is sage advice (sorry for the dripping sarcasm but i dont think that would satisfy the policy makers as to a viable solution)..you keep trying to pigeonhole me...i DONT agree with how things are being done...but to blithely take potshots from behind hay bales...seems somehow de-evolutionary...so i wont just snipe away day after day...even though i DONT agree...one runs the risk of being pigeonholed that way...lol...vs

[pilpilsner]

Vaga-go to you tube and start watching some peter shiff videos and educate yourself.

[Fransisco]

There are lots of solutions, lots of ways of doing things better and all sorts of things that can be done to help people weather the storm. The reason I didn't put any on the table is your 'Attila the Hun' remark.

I have found that any solution anyone has purposed other than borrowing, spending, printing more money and regulating the bejeezus out of everyone in the process gets dismissed out of hand with some similar such remark.

None-the-less here goes...

Stimulus- The government can not spend your money better than you can, instead of giving it to their "targets" they should instead give the money back to the people that earned it in the first place so they can reinvest it as they see fit.

Tax's- Drastically reduce corporate tax's and consider eliminating them all together. You want these guys to make money and hire people. They need to be more profitable for this to happen. If Canada eliminated corporate tax's we would see a tonne of jobs and money flow into the country from everywhere in the world. BTW all of the stimulus and deficit spending is going to lead to higher tax's down the road as surely as day follows night.

Interest rates- Raise them. People need to save more and stop borrowing for consumption purposes and they need a safe and secure way to do it. 2% at the Credit Union just doesn't cut it. You've got way to many people speculating in the stock and other markets because they have no safe place to invest. People are being forced to take risks with their money that they otherwise wouldn't. Folks who are afraid of heights make lousy sky divers and leave nasty stains on the sidewalk.

Overly cheap credit also means that it doesn't get rationed appropriately, which leads to bubbles like the housing one. You get a lot less hang overs when whiskey is $20 a bottle than when it sells for a buck.

Monetary policy- You don't like the idea of going back to some kind of gold standard. Fine, how's about running the fiat currency the way it was intended to run in the first place? The original idea was that the money supply was supposed to increase and decrease with our level of productivity. It has never been decreased during a recession, only increased at an accelerated rate to re-inflate burst bubbles.

And how's about we start reporting inflation honestly? The consumer price index and the producer price index are a joke, they continually readjust or at times completely eliminate items whose prices increased. And in the US they completely stopped reporting the M3 money supply in 1996. They haven't done so here yet, but when is the last time you heard on the news anything about the money supply period?

Regulations- How's about a moratorium on new regulations? One of the fundamental rules of economics, that the welfare state tries to obscure, is that there is no consumption without there first being production. You don't work, you don't eat. Regulations hamper productivity and reduce profitability, both of which we need more of now not less. The two biggest things hampering our productivity in this country are tax's and regulations. The ridiculous labour and minimum wage laws don't help either. There are all sorts of places in the world that have huge advantages over us in these areas we shouldn't be surprised when we see companies moving there.

The economy cycles- Stop pretending that it doesn't! Or thinking that you can stop it from happening. Booms and busts are going to happen and there is nothing anyone can do to change that. With the right policies you can make the busts less painful but they are still going to be bad and they are still going to happen. Every year we know we're going to get some blizzards and we prepare accordingly, people need to do the same thing with their personal financial and economic circumstances as do governments.

If you've just lost your job or had to take a 25% cut in your pay you don't go out and get another mortgage to add a new wing to your house or increase your donations to your favourite charities. If you're an alcoholic you don't sober up with another bottle of gin, and heroin addicts don't get better by taking another hit. All of which our government is doing right now. But supposedly it's okay because everyone else we hang out with is a junkie too.

If we ease off the stuff now, yah its going to be bad, but if we don't it's going to get worse. We're eventually going to hit bottom and have to go cold turkey. I'd rather move away from the herd and sober up now than wait for that to happen. But you know I'm one of those nasty 'Attila the Hun' types.

[pilpilsner]

Jim is starting to show his frustration at explaining this stuff over and over to all the economically illiterate people in the world,which is probably 99% of the populas.Which is how i use to feel until it just became really funny to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTQ4zVWt1wQ&feature=rec-HM-r2

[parsley]

We have a spoiled bloody elite, self-bonused they are, making erratic decisions, based on the assumption that they know which buttons to push to control economies and markets. Blackberries in the backrooms putting out fires. They don't know what they're doing. They're making hot fixes.

A little like trying to control Mother Nature.

And they need to beslapped in the pocketbook. A lot of firing. Sounds like you're one of them vs

Pars

[Fransisco]

Check out the video here. The founder of Home Depot says he would have never been able to take the company public in today's regulatory environment. How many similar companies are there out there today that aren't going to go any where because of this craziness.

http://www.siemenssays.com/?p=16248

[vagabonddreamer]

whoop whoop whoop...(vagabonddreamer runs around the room like curly from the three stooges slapping his forehead)....

you guys are great fun...just because i try and examine an issue from all sides doesnt mean i agree with any or ALL of them...

my apologies fransisco..i wasnt referring to you personally with my atilla the hun remark...we have already gone that route and i dont think you are A the H at all...in fact you show a great deal more patience and the ability for "discussion" without "dismissal"...AND...the more i read your writing...the more i respect your knowledge and understanding of the issues...we see eye to eye on many things but will never on others...and that is OK...a world full of people who agreed on EVERYTHING would be pretty boring...kinda like a world full of peter schiff automatons would be pretty boring...no debate...no discussions...just a world full of MILLIONAIRES that KNOW everything!!!

anyway...i stand with you on many of your ideologies...and the ones that i dont agree with...arent because i dont think they have merit...more because i dont think they could truly ever happen...

parsley parsley parsley...if you only KNEW how far off you truly were...you would blush and twitter and with gallant and whistful musings and drop your kercheif...so tell me viking belle...why should the elite today...be any different than they have for generations before??? dont tell me you think there should not be an ELITE??? tell me you dont think that the elite dont really pull all the strings anyway...no matter HOW distasteful you find it???PUUUHHHLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEEEZZZZZE...you are starting to sound like a leninist?!?!?!?!?! and when i refer to marxism...i dont mean the "brothers"...lol...

pilpilpilpilsner...i think you are too far gone into schiffism to give a cottonpicken dang (get it???lol)...about anything anyone else might have to say about anything...(do you have the you-tube video for the schiffists where he tells you when to eat breakfast and when to brush your teeth and go pee and stuff???)...

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2009/01/peter-schiff-was-wrong.html

just another angle....vs