• You will need to login or register before you can post a message. If you already have an Agriville account login by clicking the login icon on the top right corner of the page. If you are a new user you will need to Register.

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Carnies

Collapse
X
Collapse
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #11
    There are lots of solutions, lots of ways of doing things better and all sorts of things that can be done to help people weather the storm. The reason I didn't put any on the table is your 'Attila the Hun' remark.

    I have found that any solution anyone has purposed other than borrowing, spending, printing more money and regulating the bejeezus out of everyone in the process gets dismissed out of hand with some similar such remark.

    None-the-less here goes...

    Stimulus- The government can not spend your money better than you can, instead of giving it to their "targets" they should instead give the money back to the people that earned it in the first place so they can reinvest it as they see fit.

    Tax's- Drastically reduce corporate tax's and consider eliminating them all together. You want these guys to make money and hire people. They need to be more profitable for this to happen. If Canada eliminated corporate tax's we would see a tonne of jobs and money flow into the country from everywhere in the world. BTW all of the stimulus and deficit spending is going to lead to higher tax's down the road as surely as day follows night.

    Interest rates- Raise them. People need to save more and stop borrowing for consumption purposes and they need a safe and secure way to do it. 2% at the Credit Union just doesn't cut it. You've got way to many people speculating in the stock and other markets because they have no safe place to invest. People are being forced to take risks with their money that they otherwise wouldn't. Folks who are afraid of heights make lousy sky divers and leave nasty stains on the sidewalk.

    Overly cheap credit also means that it doesn't get rationed appropriately, which leads to bubbles like the housing one. You get a lot less hang overs when whiskey is $20 a bottle than when it sells for a buck.

    Monetary policy- You don't like the idea of going back to some kind of gold standard. Fine, how's about running the fiat currency the way it was intended to run in the first place? The original idea was that the money supply was supposed to increase and decrease with our level of productivity. It has never been decreased during a recession, only increased at an accelerated rate to re-inflate burst bubbles.

    And how's about we start reporting inflation honestly? The consumer price index and the producer price index are a joke, they continually readjust or at times completely eliminate items whose prices increased. And in the US they completely stopped reporting the M3 money supply in 1996. They haven't done so here yet, but when is the last time you heard on the news anything about the money supply period?

    Regulations- How's about a moratorium on new regulations? One of the fundamental rules of economics, that the welfare state tries to obscure, is that there is no consumption without there first being production. You don't work, you don't eat. Regulations hamper productivity and reduce profitability, both of which we need more of now not less. The two biggest things hampering our productivity in this country are tax's and regulations. The ridiculous labour and minimum wage laws don't help either. There are all sorts of places in the world that have huge advantages over us in these areas we shouldn't be surprised when we see companies moving there.

    The economy cycles- Stop pretending that it doesn't! Or thinking that you can stop it from happening. Booms and busts are going to happen and there is nothing anyone can do to change that. With the right policies you can make the busts less painful but they are still going to be bad and they are still going to happen. Every year we know we're going to get some blizzards and we prepare accordingly, people need to do the same thing with their personal financial and economic circumstances as do governments.

    If you've just lost your job or had to take a 25% cut in your pay you don't go out and get another mortgage to add a new wing to your house or increase your donations to your favourite charities. If you're an alcoholic you don't sober up with another bottle of gin, and heroin addicts don't get better by taking another hit. All of which our government is doing right now. But supposedly it's okay because everyone else we hang out with is a junkie too.

    If we ease off the stuff now, yah its going to be bad, but if we don't it's going to get worse. We're eventually going to hit bottom and have to go cold turkey. I'd rather move away from the herd and sober up now than wait for that to happen. But you know I'm one of those nasty 'Attila the Hun' types.

    Comment


      #12
      Jim is starting to show his frustration at explaining this stuff over and over to all the economically illiterate people in the world,which is probably 99% of the populas.Which is how i use to feel until it just became really funny to me.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTQ4zVWt1wQ&feature=rec-HM-r2

      Comment


        #13
        We have a spoiled bloody elite, self-bonused they are, making erratic decisions, based on the assumption that they know which buttons to push to control economies and markets. Blackberries in the backrooms putting out fires. They don't know what they're doing. They're making hot fixes.

        A little like trying to control Mother Nature.

        And they need to beslapped in the pocketbook. A lot of firing. Sounds like you're one of them vs

        Pars

        Comment


          #14
          Check out the video here. The founder of Home Depot says he would have never been able to take the company public in today's regulatory environment. How many similar companies are there out there today that aren't going to go any where because of this craziness.

          http://www.siemenssays.com/?p=16248

          Comment


            #15
            whoop whoop whoop...(vagabonddreamer runs around the room like curly from the three stooges slapping his forehead)....

            you guys are great fun...just because i try and examine an issue from all sides doesnt mean i agree with any or ALL of them...

            my apologies fransisco..i wasnt referring to you personally with my atilla the hun remark...we have already gone that route and i dont think you are A the H at all...in fact you show a great deal more patience and the ability for "discussion" without "dismissal"...AND...the more i read your writing...the more i respect your knowledge and understanding of the issues...we see eye to eye on many things but will never on others...and that is OK...a world full of people who agreed on EVERYTHING would be pretty boring...kinda like a world full of peter schiff automatons would be pretty boring...no debate...no discussions...just a world full of MILLIONAIRES that KNOW everything!!!

            anyway...i stand with you on many of your ideologies...and the ones that i dont agree with...arent because i dont think they have merit...more because i dont think they could truly ever happen...

            parsley parsley parsley...if you only KNEW how far off you truly were...you would blush and twitter and with gallant and whistful musings and drop your kercheif...so tell me viking belle...why should the elite today...be any different than they have for generations before??? dont tell me you think there should not be an ELITE??? tell me you dont think that the elite dont really pull all the strings anyway...no matter HOW distasteful you find it???PUUUHHHLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEEEZZZZZE...you are starting to sound like a leninist?!?!?!?!?! and when i refer to marxism...i dont mean the "brothers"...lol...

            pilpilpilpilsner...i think you are too far gone into schiffism to give a cottonpicken dang (get it???lol)...about anything anyone else might have to say about anything...(do you have the you-tube video for the schiffists where he tells you when to eat breakfast and when to brush your teeth and go pee and stuff???)...

            http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2009/01/peter-schiff-was-wrong.html

            just another angle....vs

            Comment


              #16
              fransisco...taking a break from fixing range fence and wrestling with barb-wire...had a chance to think about your "solutions" email...so...

              stimulus..absolutely 100% in agreement....put the money in the pockets of the people....i saw a calculation done by an economist in the US...he said it would have been cheaper to give everyone over 50 employed by the big three automakers a million dollars and early retirement...the only catch being they had to purchase a new american made vehicle...it would have instantly created thousands upon thousands of jobs for new workers and instantly done away with vehicle inventory...and a flood of money into the economy through the pockets of the average american where it does the most good...the only caveat to putting money into the pockets of joe public at a time like this is that the money tends to be saved or used to pay down debt...neither of which will stimulate..

              taxes...100% agreement..again the only caveat being that moneys lent by the government ie to bombardier cn rail, cp rail etc going back 50 plus years...must be repaid..

              interest rates...raise them?? WHO should raise them?? shouldnt they be left floating based on free market??

              overly cheap credit...you keep asking for less regulation but want interest rates regulated...

              monetary policy...i never said i dont LIKE the idea of gold standard...i actually think the gold standard is the ideal economic model...as long as one is prepared to deal with harsh downturns like the great depression...the only reason i downplay the gold standard is because i really think it would be chaos and lots of people would get seriously hurt (figuratively)...and i dont like that thought..

              economy does cycle...and there have been blips in both directions over the last 40 years or so...so i am not sure what your point is here..

              i think the DT'S are at their most potent stage right NOW...lots of people are taking stock of their lives and starting to see the folly in chasing dollars...dont you sense that the public (not the politicians)...your neighbours etc...have had the reality driven home in a huge way over the last 8 months?? vs

              Comment


                #17
                Sounds like you're spending more time on navels than barbwire.

                You say:
                "SOMEONE in central control was there to help re-build...just as SOMEONE needs to be there to control the hurrciane that would be the economy.."

                Musings:
                I'm not so sure the elites are the best ones to manage recovery. Their self interest is at an all time high, and I don't think their recovery measures will be longterm wise, because their fix may selfishly kill their source-productivity, which they need to sustain their ambitions. Maybe ordinarey people would do better than the elites.

                You said:
                "why should the elite today...be any different than they have for generations before???"

                Musings:
                The elite are really not different, it's just that they have amalgamated with each other, in many instances. So their clout with governments, whether it is by way of regulation or deregulation or begging for grants, is onerous on everyone but them.

                Pars

                Comment


                  #18
                  An ocean of words,that is about an inch deep of substance.

                  Comment


                    #19
                    I've never claimed to be succinct.

                    Comment


                      #20
                      I would love it if interests rates were the result of the free market. They're not. Remember what started this thread? BOC cut? This is one of the ways governments regulate the economy, through central banks. I'm not calling for it, just acknowledging that it already exists and is part of the problem.

                      The Great Depression was not caused by the Gold Standard it was caused by the interventionist policies of Hoover and Roosevelt and the US Fed. In fact at one point Roosevelt confiscated all of the gold and silver of the American people.

                      http://www.the-privateer.com/1933-gold-confiscation.html

                      During the height of the depression gold was pouring into the US from all over the world and the Fed did not convert it into currency like it was supposed to, it just locked it away. Constricting the money supply and causing all sorts of damage. Because that didn't work they are today doing the wrong thing in the opposite direction and inflating the money supply. It was the government that stoped the self correcting mechanisms of the gold standard from kicking in that caused the problem not the gold standard itself.

                      Milton Friedman gives an okay explanation here.

                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7pnjzCuSv8&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Evideos ift%2Ecom%2Fvideo%2FMilton%2DFriedman%2Dexplains%2 Drole%2Dof%2Dgold%2Din%2DGreat%2DDepression&featur e=player_embedded

                      The point I was trying to make on the economy cycling is that too many people are trying to stop it from cycling and whenever you try to do that the cycles become worse.

                      Comment

                      • Reply to this Thread
                      • Return to Topic List
                      Working...