Why is the CWB not meeting our needs???

[hsiemens]

Charlie: I appreciate your position as moderator. Often rules, regulations, policy or whatever else may influence operations like CWB directors, ideals and actual practice differ. I'm only repeating how one person saw it working from within.

[TOM4CWB]

Charlie,

You know I understand that you worked at the CWB, and I do appreciate your insights into operations at 423 Main in Winnipeg!

If the CWB would not operate like a bull in a china shop, and carefully respect "designated area" grain producers right to decide who to sell their grain to, then this whole argument would be moot.

The Ontario Wheat Producers Marketing Board has the power to even be more high handed than the CWB, but they choose to respect their farmers freedom of choice.

If the CWB would respect us the same way as the OWPMB, then I would be able to accept in good faith the trust that we all need with each other to have business relationships fulfilling and honourable.

Until the CWB learns to respect the "designated area" grain producers they are supposed to be serving, we will continue to have a huge problem.

Am I asking to much, to be treated like an Ontario Wheat Producer, instead of a pawn from the outer reaches of nowhere?

[TOM4CWB]

Well, this is interesting discussion. Charlie laid out a pretty good description of the sales planning process, so not much need to expand there. I will stand up for the current CWB, and here goes.

I think, Tom, that many of your comments are anchored in a view of an organization that doesn't exist. The CWB fundamentally changed in 1998. There are elected farmer directors comprising 10 of the 15 positions on the Board. Frankly, I think they would agree with some of the statements you make and that's why you're seeing the changes that you do.

I do take some offense on your characterization of the sales staff. One very strong motivation is that many of these people come from farm backgrounds, are actively engaged in farming or have immediate families who farm. As one sales marketing manager put it to me once in describing his motivation, "I approach every sale thinking that I am selling my mom and dad's grain."

Regarding past critics turned supporters, I find it hard to believe that free thinknin people like Lorne Hehn, Earl Geddes and Ken Ritter are the types to be persuaded by " fat cheques". Especially not when these individuals could be earning fatter cheques in the private trade, and in some cases were doing so.

Perhaps they have come to the realization that there is an economic benefit for western Canadian farmers of operating the CWB.

The protrayal of a government institution doesn't fit anymore. This legislation is in place for the benefit of farmers. If they feel the organization needs to be changed, they will elect different Directors who will push for that change. Ultimately, farmers could call for a vote on adding or deleting crops from the mandate of the CWB, so could dismantle it through a democratic process if they collectively wished to.

Regarding the perfectly functioning canola market, I have heard many negative comments about the widely fluctuating basis that exists. Also about the marketability of some of the varieties, and their negative impacts on accessing high value markets.

Regarding the Ontario Wheat Producers Marketing Board, Tom be careful what you are asking for. I don't think you would want to give up the domestic feed market that exists in western Canada, for example. Ontarians are required to sell their feed quality grain to the OWPMB, whereas here there is 5-7 million tonne traded annually in the open domestic feed market in western Canada.

So there is a role for a critic in a democracy, and many of the comments to this site serve that valuable purpose. Farmers overall may be stronger speaking with a united voice on the key issues though.

Tom

[wedino]

Thalpenny, All feed grain or feed wheat? What is it? >>Ontarians are required to sell their feed quality grain to the OWPMB, whereas here there is 5-7 million tonne traded <<

[wedino]

Thalpenny, From Tom4cwb post: >>The In MJ Farms, (Jake Heoppner’s legal challenge to the CWB) the Canadian Courts ruled that the CWB “had no duty of care” to the “designated area” to maximize grain producer’s returns. The CWB Lawyers and staff are well aware of this legal president.<<

Thalpenny, please answer, Does the cwb now have a "duty of care" for Western Canadian farmers?? If your answer is yes please provide a copy of the act to verify.

[TOM4CWB]

thalpenny,

I sure wish what you said about the 1998 CWB Act changes would have made the difference you claim.

We have a major problem when the 80% of producers who produce 20% of the wheat and barley take the easy way out, using the CWB!!!

For many of us who are truly making our livings from grain farming, we need the direct signals being maked by the CWB today.

I would take the OWPMB system any day over what the CWB is doing today!!!!!!

So go ahead and put it in place!!!

If the CWB had to be legally responsible for the distortions that are built into our western Canadian Feed market today, then things would be much different!

When the CWB charges absurd high buy backs to distort the feed grain markets, huge distortions build here, as the Western Grain Marketing Panel and George Morris Centre have stated.

High buy backs can only be for one purpose, to keep feed grain inside the designated area, or conversely inside Canada.

This in turn prevents arbitage with internatioal prices as the studies prove.

The misalocation of resourses caused by the CWB will take generations to correct, when we finally fix our marketing system and stop acting like communist CUBA.

If the sales people are working so well, and we can trust what you say as being the truth, thalpenny, why are you so afraid of a little freindly competition like Ontario wheat growers allow, and the pork producers have today?

Wouldn't a 80% market share, with added ability to market other grains besides wheat and barley all on a voluntary basis, not make the CWB much stronger, and therefore serve the CWB purists much better?

There will be change thalpenny, don't you want to be part of the solution, rather than the problem?

[TOM4CWB]

To Wedino - I meant to indicate that the OWPMB is involved with feed wheat, not all feed grains. The 5-7mmt number I referred to was an estimate of all feed cereals, so thanks for seeking clarification on this point.

[cowman]

I am not in favor of the monopoly powers of the CWB, mainly on principle, but I have to agree with thalpenny that with the changes to the act it is a truly democratic institution. Get enough people on side and you will end the monopoly. I think that is the only way things will change as long as we have the Liberals in power! And with those bunch of clowns called the Alliance as the opposition, it might be for a long, long time!
What would happen if suddenly they scrapped the buyback? Do you think everyone would get rich running that grain across the border? The Americans would slam that border closed so fast it would make your head spin! They don't want competition...they are only free traders when it benifits them!

[TOM4CWB]

Cowman,

The CWB already scrapped the buyback for wheat and barley seed, feed mills selling Canadian milled feed into the US, and in fact except on the lower grades of wheat the buy-back actually can extract money out of the pooling account and give it to the person exporting. This amounts to an export enhancement subsidy on Canadian wheat going into the US!

Now, as you can see, there is a problem. What's the difference?

All I am asking is that the CWB stop distorting international trade with the illegal use of section 14 of the CWB Act Regulations, and treat us "designated area" folks like they treat the rest of Canada!

According to the CWB and Chairman Ritter, they claim that North American markets operate as if the CWB did not exist, therefore it is not possible to have a difference between the price inside and outside Canada caused by CWB licensing of sales.

Therefore I cannot benefit from a CWB export licence, especially when I direct export and do not use the Canadian grades and grain handling system.

I object to the social engineering that the CWB uses to push farmers into growing CWRS wheat, and malt barley!

Now, Cowman, does the US take us to court over oats, canola, triticale, flax, peas, lentils, beans, corn, cannary seed, the many different cereal, oilseed, and grass seeds, and hay?

Why are CWB controled grains such a sore spot, when farmers on both sides of the 49th know we obviously are not operating square and honest, shouldn't we do something about this problem?

And for the 80% of farmers who produce 20% of the wheat and barley, why should they force my wheat and barley into a pooling system, which is designed only to make their marketing simple, while making mine frustrating and difficult?

How fair is this?

So if these folks want simple, what makes you think they will ever vote to return my farm to the free world, when they find it beneficial to themselves to have myself, and the majority of the other 20% of grain growers who produce 80%, remain in chains?

Why would these folks think about voting to make marketing harder and more time consuming, when if we stay as we are now they can be assured that The CWB will prevent me from getting a higher price than they will get, by taking value from me?

The fear mongering and brain washing the CWB has done over the last 67 years has worked well, hasn’t it Cowman?

[cowman]

Tom:
There is no way I am saying the CWB is fair or good for DA farmers! All I'm saying is they are the only game in town right now and the government has given all grain producers a vehicle to change the system. Don't forget there are now two dual market supporters on the board. Who do you think elected them? Do you think it was the 20%? Jim Chatenay had wide support from all sizes of producers! So why couldn't this happen in the other areas?
I believe that this is the way to go instead of breaking the law and getting your truck seized and ending up in jail. You have a choice...change the system from within or break the law and suffer the consequences.

[TOM4CWB]

Cowman,

I agree that in district 2, Jim Chatenay has a wide magin of support, and for a very good reason.

This is a Alberta district, that stands squarely on principal and the right of choice even if it means more work.

Sask. however has taught many of its farmers that stepping on someone elses toes to get ahead is the right thing to do.

How many generations will it take for them to overcome this mentality?

Voting on stealing your neighbours grain, when the CWB claims it is legal, is like getting welfare people to vote on the right to receive welfare! They will never vote to take their own income away!

Are the 80% who produce 20% of the wheat and barley any different?

THIS CLEARLY IS NOT AN ISSUE THAT WE SHOULD BE VOTING ON!!!

I THOUGHT the courts would stand up for my constitutional rights as a Canadian, however they instead refused to ever even look at the legal rulings backing the rightful position we took, that it the CWB is breaking the law, not we who need marketing choice!

The Courts have abandoned common law in western Canada, and have gone to administrative law Quebec style.

So now Cowman, what do we do?

We have a corrupt court system, that operates outside the constitution of Canada, and a government that likes the control the courts give them!

How do we straighten out this mess?

[cowman]

TOM:
I don't have any answers. Yes, you are right about the justice system...it definitely is crooked. And I don't know what is wrong with a lot of people in Sask. Maybe they had too many years of NDP governments! But then they elected them didn't they? The fact of the matter is we'll always get screwed here in Alberta. Maybe it's time for guys like you and me to join the separatists.