Did I miss something, Was 423 Main hit by something?

[cropduster]

So could I take it then Rockpile ,that the CWB distributes the wealth evenly and in doing so enhances our freedoms??

[TOM4CWB]

Rockpile,

I wonder,

Now aren't the CWB with your blessing imposing on my neighbours who are not willing or happy doing business with the CWB and you?

In a "free" country, where we respect each other and each other's property, why stand over my head with a sledge hammer waiting to pound me back into the ground?

Now, what about "morality and fairness"?

[rockpile]

Whoa,
Cropduster - all I am saying is that the CWB brings the world price to your farm gate. What you do after that is your business. Keeping in mind that there are some new pricing options available, which are no different than an open market would bring forward, and given that there is so little interest among farmers to become their own 'price takers', in my mind, it makes this entire anti-CWB stuff a little irrelevant (and silly).
Tom, your idea of freedom is far removed from any 'Libertarian' philosophy that was initially conceptualized. For one thing, you have not addressed the question of whether or not 'your' freedom to acheive will be a result of the failure or shortcoming of others, as opposed to you being able to supercede the ability of others. In other words, in a non-CWB world, will you have found a way of adding wealth to your product, or will you simply design a system whereby you take the fixed amount of wealth and re-distribute it, by whatever means works, to enhance your own position? If so, then you have done nothing to convince me that your goals are superior to mine. Robin Hood is as Robin Hood sees things. When you figure out a way to raise the bar for everyone, I will cheer. Let the marketing gurus (like you) get more, but give me a system that gives 'everyone' a little more. That is the issue. Until then, 'goodbye'.
Rockpile

[TOM4CWB]

Rockpile,

I am no smarter than you Rockpile, and I surely do not need the responsibility of making any decisions for your farm.

However, you on the other hand are ready to limit my options and take my assets, and I object to this.

Many Pools operate today in the world, the USA has some of the most sucsessful in the world, and I say great.

Pork marketing in western Canada has become voluntary, and farmer owned marketing agencies are involved in by far the majority of Pork reaching the consumer from the prairies!

What are you so deathly afraid of Rockpile?

Is it possible that a little competition might make our products more consumer freindly, and actually become worth more?

Wouldn't a bigger paycheck, and happier consumers of our grain products be worth working for Rockpile?

Change can be good, can't it Rockpile?

[ianben]

Hi Tom and Rockpile.
I am with Rockpile lets raise the bar for everyone!!
Why does reform of the CWB have to be the only change which will give us all a better living.

Is "freedom" the answer?

I have the "freedom" you crave. I can sell to whom I please; but I have government manipulation of the markets.

This will always be with a politically sensitive product like food.

"Freedom" doesn't exist anywhere!!!

That doesn't mean we couldn't try to raise the bar for everyone like Rockpile suggests!!!

Regards Ian

[TOM4CWB]

Ian,

The bar I can raise the easiest is my own performance and the productivity of the assets I have the honour of being responsible for.

I clearly have noted that the CWB fogs the signals that my farm receives, and at times manipulates my assets for selfish self preservation purposes.

If the CWB were personally responsible to me, and I had the choice of firing them and buying someone elses services, then clearly the CWB could do whatever it liked or wanted.

Doing a better job of managing my families farm is my responsibility, and the CWB is a fact of life.

I am a fool if I do not try to change something that has hurt me so deeply, so it won't hurt others the same way I have been by it.

[ianben]

Hi Tom
Lets suppose youv'e won your battle with CWB.
Do you really think governments will not interfere in your business, your own or the countries you are trying to sell to?
Will the US allow free trade?
I know there are supposed to be no barriers in N America like we have in the EU.
That has never stopped France banning our beef or lamb with some trumped up reason which take years to resolve.

What about your PEI potatoes? Sounded about the same to me!!! Any dispute which disrupts the market means the customer has a new supplier and you have a huge loss.
BSE Foot and mouth, you dont have to have the problem to get hurt. I know from experience!!!
This type of government intervention can really hurt.
One day you have a market the next it is GONE.

What is the saying about "Better the devil you know than the devil you don't."

I am all for change as you know but change which allows us to have some control over price.
I am sure we are both good producers of crops and can produce what the market demands.
How do we get a realistic price for our produce?
Is there a better way of disposing of a surplus if demand suddenly crashes than selling at any price?
I believe farmers themselves are the only people who could solve these problems.

Are we ready to stand together for a price?

Regards Ian

[TOM4CWB]

Ian,

I agree in principal with what you say however,

The CWB through the pooling system controls what wheat and barley is grown out here through economic controls.

The CWB prices wheat types and classes in relation to each other in only one pool for the whole year.

If I want out of the CWB marketing system I often must pay a large export tax on my "lower" quality wheat to get out of its system.

The CWB is killing diversification of growing different classes of wheat by these economic tactics.

Monoculture CWRS Hard Spring Wheat is being given the priority, and I believe this is a foolish and dangerous plan.

To live with the CWB every day on my farm is ok as long as it is voluntary, and is forced to compete on a level playing field with other industry players.

I agree that food is political, hopefully we can make it less and less so.

Some day my hope is that all hungry people have a fair chance to a good food supply each day!

And that would make the world a better place, wouldn't it?

WOULDN'T THIS BRING A MEASURE OF JUSTICE TO THIS WORLD?

[rockpile]

Tom
Ianben is from another country and from a different institutional structure. Yet he is plagued by the same issues that we are. How can that be? I sense that he sees the irony of us all working our butts off, in different parts of the world, for our 'corporate' masters. And he seeks an alternative solution. Perhaps, all of us connecting in a more constructive way and working together. How novel. This is the same capitalistic principle that the oil companies employ to manipulate the price of gas and diesel. You, however, are preoccupied by your 'Id'. You feel that the primary responsibility of Society is to let you do whatever you want and to take care of yourself, in the best way you can, utilising your talents and resources. However, you neglect to acknowledge that what 'you' do may well impact on my rights, and if you do things wrong, that wrong could well come down on me. In other words, your right to swing ends where my nose begins. I know what you are against, now show me a better way. You criticise the CWB as the emporer of monoculture, but do you seriously think the private trade would be more reactive to producer individuality? That requires you to believe that they are not margin operators, peddling volume at a fixed rate to return profitability. If it was up the private grain trade, there would be two grades of wheat - poor and poorer. Personally, I enjoy the options and the freedom I now have - grow a Board grain, or grow and produce something else. Nothing you have offered comes close to that choice. May I remind you, that if you don't like the way we do things here, you have total freedom to go somewhere else, or go do something different, but please stay clear of my nose. Or is this too confusing for you?
Rockpile

[ianben]

Hi Tom
Glad you agree in princpal at least.

The fact is I am controled economically in what I grow by the EU, manipuliting markets and subsidizing some crops more than others.
Isn't the US the same. What will the US farmer plant next year soya or more soya.
Something to do with the loan rate isn't it.
Is this the best way to produce what the customer wants or is this a way to get re-elected by appearing to have cheap food???
As individuals we stand no chance against such forces and must make the best of whatever system we have in place.
Thats what I try to do anyway.

Could we learn something from the fallout from the 11th???

Airline companies faced with reduced demand are not selling at any price but REDUCEING supply.

They know if the customer is afraid of flying low prices with not help!

It can't be an easy decision to moth-ball planes and make their crews redundant,but look at the speed at which they have all reacted.
GLOBALLY!!!

CAN WE FARMERS EVER LEARN THIS LESSON

Rockpile

Thanks for the kind words.
I don't think there is a conspircy against farmers by anyone in particular.
Most people out there would like us to be profitable, governments, suppliers and customers, we all have to eat.

I believe we create the problem ourselves by trying to sell ALL we produce at ANY price.

No one can solve this problem for us.
There is no system governments could devise which would work.

Only farmers can solve the problem by acting like the airline companies and matching supply to demand.

Not selling at any price!!!!

Regards Ian