Flax?

[Fransisco]

That would be a reasonable evidence based approach.

[parsley]

fran, I just try to keep the arguebarbs diluted: I am not sensitive at all, I am only having a bit of sport, so accept it as such, will you?

We are farmers, not adversaries.

charliep, trying to keep me on topic is like trying to keep a fencecrawling cow out of the oats swath, but you already know that.lol

Checking seed source sounds good to me<p></p>
<p class="EC_style8ptBK"><strong>[URL="http://parsleysnotebook.blogspot.com/2009/09/following-genetic-trail-of-triffid-gmo.html"](I did a wee bit of checking)[/URL]</strong></p>

[Fransisco]

That's good, just making sure.

[Fransisco]

SITUATION UPDATE
CANADIAN FLAX IN EUROPEAN MARKETPLACE
WINNIPEG, MB (September 11th, 2009)

On September 8th, 2009 the European Commission issued a Rapid Alert notification, confirming the presence of CDC Triffid flax in some Canadian flax samples. To date, we have not seen any laboratory results that would prove this to be the case. We are working with the Canadian European Mission in Brussels to determine what prompted this action.

European labs have been testing Canadian flax and initial analytical results indicate, in some samples, the presence of NPTII, a genetic marker common to many GM crops. Some of these
labs are now stating that this indicates the presence of CDC Triffid, a genetically modified flax, not approved for production in Canada.

The Flax Council of Canada considers the possibility of genetically modified flax to be a very serious issue. The Council is also in discussion with Foreign Affairs International Trade Canada (DFAIT), Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada (AAFC) and the Canadian Food Inspection Agency (CFIA), to keep them apprised of the situation and enlist their assistance with potential trade issues.

In conjunction with industry experts and scientists, the Flax Council of Canada is working with Plant Biotechnology Institute in Canada and the Canadian Grain Commission’s Grain Research Laboratory to establish a proper protocol that will conclusively determine if Canadian flax contains CDC Triffid. Since DNA testing is extremely sensitive, and technology has improved considerably in recent years, this protocol has to be carefully developed to ensure accurate and reliable results.

As these results become available, we will communicate further with you.

[parsley]

Why do the CGC and GFIA and Gov et al spend all this time flailing their arms?

A little note for the Canadian Grain Commission:

1. Check out Quality Assured Seeds. They were initially in charge of Triffid seed!

If you can't find incorporation records, phone the University of Saskatchewan and say in your finest voice of authority,(practice in front of the mirrror if you have to,) "As officials of the Canadian Grain Commission, we require the names of the registered owners of Quality Seeds.
And go "hurrumph."

U of S can recognize a funder's voice a mile away, if you feel the need to put the Minister on the phone.

2. Phone Quality Assured Seeds shareholder's and ask them who bought Triffid seed from them!

3. Call each of the forty who purchased Triffid. Ask for seed grower their records.

Every record will be in order, won't they?


That way, the CGC can reassure the EU with documented proof, that the marker is not from Canada.





Right? Pars

[charliep]

Is this the way the organic industry will deal with one of its own when
someone steps offside? Will you automatically assume they are guilty
without knowing all the facts? Do you want the CGC to be the
executioner?

[parsley]

Lawsey, charliep, you view an audit trail as a pox from hell!

If the forty farmers have documented that they destroyed their grain, the audit trail should look elsewhere!

They initially grew it.

If one of them sold Triffid to a seed grower in the United States,for example, perhaps that is the trail to follow.

Audit trails are there for the reason to follow the trail! It's not to execute anyone. It is NOT to presume.

There is a paper trail.
Read that again
There is a paper trail.


If everyone has done their bookwork, and all grain is accounted for, there could well be insect pollination.

In which case, let's learn from it.


We had direct contact from Germany one time about a load of grain. The audit trail was a path of discovery.

That's what it's all about, charliep.

It is open.
It is accountable.
It is about discovery

We need to look at an audit trail as an asset.

Pars

[parsley]

And charlie, I'm not sure that it is Canada that is offside.

But the important part is that we cannot look like bloated cows milling in the pasture looking for gate when this blip came up.

After mad cow, surely we should know better.

There should be little problem tracing the shippers.
Little problem tracing the growers if they are Canadians.

But also easy to tell the EU that we have determined that it was NOT our growers, either.

After all, they are registered seed growers with a clear audit trail.

If the load was grown by growers in the USA and then came through Canada, to Begium and then to germany, for example, the response protocol should be different than if all forty growers absolutley destroyed all their Triffid.

Pars

[parsley]

One more thing charliep,
Your comment:

"Do you want the CGC to be the
executioner?"

Good grief. Yes.

I expect the CGC and the CFIA to do their job.

If it turns out to be Michael Ignatpuffpuff who grew Triffid illegally and shipped it as food grade, I still expect them to do their job.

A Registered Seed grower's audit trail is not about "covering ones ass" and I remain confident they've planned it thus. As I expect you would be.

[Fransisco]

"Is this the way the organic industry will deal with one of its own when
someone steps offside?"

No, <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/04/dining/04cert.html?_r=1"> this is how they deal with it.</a>

And then they say, tut, tut it's no big deal "Processing and handling practices are not a permanent condition or alteration; rather, they can be adjusted the next morning, or repaired." Even though it took several months with several hundred people hospitalized and nine dead.

But, if a stray gene shows up in a flax muffin now that's a real problem.

I'm not anti-organic but the totally disproportionate response here is truly breath taking to behold.

[bucket]

Yep you guys keep arguing. Lets look at the facts:

Either someone grew triffid that shouldn't have. He's liable. Plain and simple.

Or the grain commision didn't do their job in detecting this stuff. They are liable and then the guy that grew it also.

Let me repeat what I said before. Percy was taken to the supreme court for growing a registered variety - he kept his seed. The persons responsible for this did a greater misdeed and should be put through the same wringer and then held liable for the losses to western canadian farmers. Its that simple.

But as long as the Flax commission, the cgc, the cfia are all pointing fingers it will all be forgotten soon with the costs put directly onto farmers.

Do I think someone is responsible for this mess - Yep. Plain and simple.

[parsley]

There are seed growers who work with organics. And get certified.

I would expect the CGC and the CFIA to deal with them the same way as they should deal with conventional. Same thing CFIA dealing with say farm abbatoirs...conventional/organic cattle alike.

With food preparation, and restaurants, I expect inspection to be thorough and timely and use the teeth they are equipped with to shut down food places serving either organic OR conventional

As your article states :

"Although the rules governing organic food require health inspections and pest-management plans, organic certification technically has nothing to do with food safety."

Organics can trace the food supply to the deli? Yup.

Dirty deli? ...health inspectors shut it down.

I think I was very clear about the point I was making.

The flax fiasco is about GMO flax entering the food market in a country who's regulations do not permit it.

Like entering a country to sell marijuana even though the regulations say you cannot.

You would, I have no doubt, present the same argument for Mayjane....and I can just hear you say it, "Their regs are wrong" "My buyer is wrong"

Now, you can trash the organic growers audit trail if you wish. Not perfect. I've said that before. But it works quite well most of the time. But putting organics aside, the Triffid seed growers audit trail we are talking about should still be sound, should it not?

And a good place to look to solve this puzzle. Are you opposed to the examination of seed growers audit trail? Pars