BEST round 2

[freewheat]

Makar, he said the organic matter comes from the increase soil dynamic and the extra boost to microorganism activity, in not so many words.
So in a nutshell the new OM comes from nowhere. How does an activated soil (Supposedly) suddenly provide all this extra weight of material that increases om?????

[FarmRanger]

It sounds like it comes from the dorsal portion of
the pixie. You know, the side with the most dust.
;-)

[ado089]

Keeping in mind that a plant has as much biomass underground as it does above I'm having a hard time buying a 5mt/ac increase in O.M. considering a good silage crop is 7mt/ac at 35% moisture. I would think 5-10 years is what it would take to increase one percent, which by the way is consistent with carbon credit payouts.

[bestaustralia]

Gentlemen,

You can try Best on any amount of acres there is no minimum a 10L drum of CFF treats 100 acres with one application. But I am sure they would look at getting you a smaller qty if that is what you were after.

Remember that the increase in OM can also come from past organic material that has not been broken down fully by biology along with residue from the current crop. Plants can have up to 4 or 5 times the mass of the above ground material so 5 ton dry matter above ground could be 15 to 25 tons of material in the rootzone. Good biological action in the soil makes the breakdown of trash much more efficient. Most soils do not have good biological activity in them so the breakdown process is slow and inefficient.

All our soil tests are done by accredited labs (most being owned by the big fertilizer companies)

We have soils test results and would be happy to email them to anyone that would be interested in evaluating them with a open mind.

[ado089]

None of our anual field crops have that kind of below ground biomass ratio's. That's something more typical of an alfalfa or wheat grass.

But to translate....This stuff is basicaly claiming to do the same thing that a high disturbance tillage regime would do for breakdown of crop residue into a more available "organic matter" form. So I would expect to see a spike in measured O.M. followed by more stable levels or even a decline.

The good news though is that you're getting the benefits of tillages without ruinning your soil structure. If this stuff works as claimed.

[bestaustralia]

ADO809.

Yes you are right it will not keep climbing to infinity it will get as high as climate, rainfall crop rotation will allow.

The soil tests I have seen from the Rosetown Sask area of farmers using CFF was that they started at 1.8% OM and after 4 years using CFF it is 5.5% and is holding at that number for the past three years. The tests were taken on GPS sites by a reputable soil testing company in Sask. This was in a rotation of durum wheat and lentils.

[darren442]

LMAO . I am absolutly speechless.

The cycle that goes on with in the soil and air has been going on for millions of years. Every piece of vegetation that grows on the praries reliese on theses cycles.Every cycle has to run in a perfect cycle in order for you to get maximum yield. Every piece from soil structure to seed quality to harvest has be at top effeciency. Biofertilzers help these cycles and products reach as high of effeciency as possible.It makes your soil better, your seed better,your plants better. It helps theses cycles run in as true as cycle as possible. The cycles are been thrown out of balance and this is why increased fertilzer is been used why yields have not increased at the same rate. This is why fungiceds are being used more and more. 95% of you guys know this you pay the bills you know your cost is going up and up. If they haven't thats great . This is also why your retailers are getting to go on better all paid trips and making good money.if they say they aren't they ae lying.

As far as what in them its like anything, ask whats in fertilzer or hows it made call up simplot and see if you get an answer. call up monsanto and ask them for there ingrediants for round up they won't tell you. Out of all the products you use on your farm i bet you don't know the ingrediants of anything on your farm . What in the oil, or gas what in WD-40, no ingediants are labeled on anything. Do you guys refuse to eat at Kentucky Fried Chicken because the won't tell you there herbs and spices. How many of you put medicine into your one kids and babies with out ever reading the lable, whats in cough syrup ? So lets drop the whats in it cause nothing you use has 100% of the ingediants on it.Some of these process of manufacturng even have patents on them.

You guys are hung up on this organic matter ??? you only get an N credit for a certain % of OM after that it don't matter. OM is a small piece of a giant puzzle. When i talk about this stuff i spend maybe one minute on OM then move on there is more important things going on and i won't get hung up on OM.unless you want to spend hours upon hours maybe days studying it and eveything about it from A to Z.

to put on 160 acres at 10 bucks an acre will cost you $1600. 75% of you will loss more then that by applying wrong type of fertilizer, using poor seed, playing the chemical program game and using the wrong product, Or by doing the couple hundred other things that cost you money or yield.

Example for those of you who use fungicides if you do this certian thing it will gain you 2-3 bushels more and it only costs a few dollars/acre. if your not doing this your going to loose a couple grand anyways.

So to spend 1600 on this is nothing and anyways your inputs will be reduced to cover the cost anyways so it won't cost you hardly anything.

Ive spoken to guys in retail at there own offices about this and its funny how most don't understand it, and how i can give them wierd answers that they should know i'm yanking there chains and they are believing me. I've spoken to some who are just wanting to listen and know more. Biofertilizer work on the simple foundations that are the bases of soil life and soil health. This information can be found in text books in every university, ag college and likely in most of your homes. The knoweldge is not what can i use to make a crop grow but is HOW does a crop grow.

I've spoken to farmers and after an hour they are so excitied to try this its amazing and some farmes don't want to even listen.


If you want to get some product go for it you have nothing to loose and everthing to gain.

If you know your a top farmer and don't need this becuase your crops are the best they can be and your running top yields year after year, then can i come out to your farm and see i would be interested in see how you do it, I'm not being smart i would really like to talk to you.

You don't have to be a rocket scientist to know that companies don't stay in business for 10 years or 30 years if they are selling junk to farmers it common sense . And don't bring up amway they are a multi billion dollar company.

So here is some homework . Go to your search engine amd type in Nitrogen cycle, sulphur cycle and phosphorus cyle. print the three cycles out now take a marker or paper and cover up EVERYTHING that micro organsims do and see what your left with. It should make sense that the less life you have the worse your soils are and the more life you have the better you are.

i haven't been on here in a long time it nice to see guys are still chatting and everyone is being there predictable self. There is also no point of respnding to me since i won't be back on here for a month or two. but anyone can email me or call i will help if i can


I hope seeding is going good and a great year for everybody.

[darren442]

ADO089 i read your post at the beginnig and i can tell you are trying very hard to learn about these products but you have missed the boat. I have read that post about 5 times now going over each section and though you have came close on a few points your way way off on most others.

Even in your last 5 or 6 sentences its all about guys still buying from there retail and not to cut rates and you list products to buy from retails.

I belive your post is an attempt to counter the biofertilzer ( whos' ever they are) and have your words be what farmers listen to . The specialist on the topic so to speak maybe you thought i was out of the picture agguy is gone so ill step in lol !!!. For instance you said these products are not wide spread, they infact are WORLD WIDE all over the globe .

And you say no matter what the product claims don't cut much more then 10-15% of you normal/RECOMENDED (see in bold letters)
fertility program and monitor the results with a benchmark soiltest.

Why cause then reatilers won't make as much on fertilizer and may not hit there quota, also 75% of the reatilers can't properly read a soiltest anyways. ALL they see is what they can sell.


I have read and underlined almost every sentence and even though it sounds like your very very educated on this mater it turns out your not correct on most every point. Even the comment about if your in zero till for 10 years you will likely start to see alot of the same results as some of the soil modification poducts. If thats the case then why are we recomending some guys to till. That is a wrong statement right from the get go. the whole post is to undermind what i and others have been saying for years.

So i hope guys don't read that and think that its all correct cause most of its way off. Some is close but mostly incorrect.

Also i see you have singled out the company BEST which is funny cause i think they are doing the most sales out of al the biofertilzer companies in canada. To date there has to be 20 or 30 companies world wide out there with biofertilzers all doing amazing work. They all are reconized by scientists and farmers and governments all over the world.

well time to shread that posting lol

[ado089]

You Best guys are great salesman, even if these are the greates products ever introduced to farming I can see why they aren't widespread here. I'm a fourth generation farmer, second generation agronomist with over 15 years farming experience and over 10 years retail experience. My current role with a retail is precisely selling these types of products along with chemical and seed. Fert is another portfolio and I could care less if we sold a single ton of fert. I have researched these products extensively as I have companies soliciting me on a weekly basis to sell their product. I've learnt most of what I know the hard way, either with my own money or by lawsuit when I eff up someone elses crop. That's the way it works when you deal with a reputable organization and the products and services you sell don't live up to the claims.

As for the other products you mention, I know exactly what is in Urea, Roundup and cough medicine. Infact it's the law that we are told that information. At one point I even knew exactly what those products do in the soil, in the plant...down to the bio-chemical reactions.

But tell you what let's assume that I am a complete idiot and have no idea what I'm talking about. Are you willing to put your money where your mouth is big guy? I'll give you 160ac to manage any way you see fit and we'll compare it to 160ac I manage my way. At the end of the day if your's nets more money you can keep the difference, if mine nets more you pay me the difference. I'll pay for everything so all you're on the hook for is the quality of your product and caliber of your skills. I can even double this up an try it in two different soil zones with very different soil types and agronomic challanges. If you have the stones send me an e-mail at eaglehillsgrain@gmail.com. If you're right you'll probably get another 5000ac to go with it the following year.

[FarmRanger]

My farm's souls have over a decade of low
disturbance no-till. Huge increases in soil
biological activity from this alone. I sincerely
doubt that adding foreign biological agents will
have much more beneficial effect, and tillage will
only succed at reversing it.

I suspect ado089, that you are in a similar
situation and would end up trying to collect at the
end of the year.

That being said, if you tilled a long term no-till
field, you may see a short term nutient release
from killing and releasing the nutrients from the
soil organism populations that you've built up
over the years.