Increase yields as a way to expand

[vvalk]

Trying to expand in our area ( South of Calgary ) is nearly ikmpossible. To buy, if you there is anything for sale< is very expensive. To rent, again when something comes up, you will have 10 people bidding on the land. So was looking to try to increase yields through more intensive management say 10% - %20.
We have 2 1/2 to 3 % organic matter and use a blend of 80-20-0-13 on canola and around 70-15-0-9 on cereals. We historically don't use fungicides since we are very windy but am looking to spray scleratinia and leaf disease this year. Not sure what is the best stage, assume flag leaf for cereals. As for foliar applied fert not sure when the best time is and if micros or plant hormones are something to look at. Heard also seed treatments with micros is a waste of time but am looking to use cruiser max/Raxil WW for better vigour and wireworms at the high rates
Anyone have any thoughts or experiences with what I am talking about?

[vvalk]

Should mention our normal to higher end yields.
Barley 65-70 up to 85-90 bus
Spring wheat 45-50 up to 60-65bus
durum 50-55 to 65-70bus
canola 40 up to 50 bus. never broken 50 net bushel yet.
yellow mustard 15-20 up to 30-33 bus

[ado089]

Are you near vulcan?

[vvalk]

no. closer to lethbridge

[furrowtickler]

That is the aproach we have taken as well. So far so good. I would much rather spend an extra $20 - 30/ac on what we currently have than rent or try to buy more dirt at the highest prices in history - in our area. The last four years we are averaging 10-15 bus/ac more(peas/wht/can) than the local area ave by more intesive management.

[hobbyfrmr]

Furrow, what happened to the guy who gave up a bunch of rented land in your general area this spring? Did he farm what he still had control of? Did all the stuff he dropped get rented up for big dollars and nothing skipped a beat?

[furrowtickler]

yep still kickin, did o.k. last year but had a late start. All the dirt got snapped up by locals for the most part i think.

[BTOfarmall]

What is Cash Rent on these Acres?????????

[furrowtickler]

Most of it was spread out 30-40 miles from us. I know some of it was not the best dirt but heard anywhere from $45-65/ac.

[ado089]

V,
The most limiting nutrient in your case will be water, quickly followed by N. You nay even need some potash to drive yields to new highs. There is no doubt that you are doing a good job already and that any yield increases from here will also represent an greater increase in risk. I would start by giving the western ag lab rep a call. They have a great program that will allow you to play with conditions and nutrient levels to judge return secondly maybe VRN is the answer. Spending your money smarter to show higher returns.

[furrowtickler]

Ado is right, spending money smarter is what seperates succesfull farms from those who simply exsist by expanding. Producing more bushels/ac and generating more net revenue is less stressfull than chasing more acres and trying to burn more hrs that are not there, while exhasting your resources.
In some cases/years land expantion is the right thing to do. But every farmer in western Canada is in a unique position on buying or renting dirt. To me once you get to an efficient size for your management/climate/machine load/labour requirements it pays 3-1 to put more money into the dirt you have than to reorginize and expand - JMO. Being a farmer and in the ag retail side for 15 years you see this time and time again, guys that have their ship together and know their limits are by for the most efficient - and they could be 2000 - 4000 - 6000 - 8000ac - and about (2) 10,000 guys. There are some that can't manage 2000ac and there are some who could easily manage 2000ac more. I am sure it is the same everywhere.
Back to the original post, absolutely - try to max out yeilds before expanding acres when land prices are at all time highs. No better time in history to try than now. Push ado, I think he will give some good down to earth agronomic advice on how to do it.
VValk - have you tried McRae Holdings in Cardston/Stettler?

[vvalk]

Ya We use McRae's now. Not sold on the boron or micros( whether foliar or seed treat) I do use 16-20-0-13 which is convenient for one blendm over all the land. They have a product called notro boost which i again am not sold on. Wondering what the yield difference would be if you took the $12 you spend on nitro boost and put that into extra urea or ESN. Would like to top up fert in crop especilly canola but not sure when to on cereals. Don't want to spray with chemical ( which is when it needs it for yeild) and am told you need quite a bit at head stage for protein.
I think next year I will blend in 20lbs of actual ESN on top of my normal amount of urea. I think this will be good for two things, protein and too much moisture.

[dschill]

I'm not sure of your moisture situation, but if you get enough rain, I would amp your N rates up another 20-30 units on both your Canola and Wheat. And possibly an additional 10 units p on both and 10 more S on Canola. My experience with newer Canola Hybrids is they easily pay back for additional fertility. Wheat is always a toss up. With 550 canola and 350 wheat, it's a no-brainer "here" on my farm. We will use more foliars with these prices as-well, but won't make any rec's

[ado089]

V,
In my opinion ESN is a great product but it does have a sweet spot between 40-60lbs, any less and you don't tend get the benefits and any more is just too damn expesnsive for what you get.
I would be very cautious about just putting more fert in the ground. You are in an area that is typicaly dry and hot, top dressing liquid N and possibly integrating a foiliar K app may be a better way manage risk in a 50cent N world. A $30 tissue test may also tell a tale, compare good plants to bad. UAP has a great program that will give you a prescription for your crop based on tissue tests. I know alot of our long term (25 year) min-till land is starting to show micro defficiencies due to stratafication. This really shows up on wheat because of copper, it looks like leaf disease except starts at the top of the plant. There is so much a guy can do to push that last 15% but it doesn't always show an economic return. Without knowing specifics all I can say is use test strips and backcast what you do to make sure you're not missing something.

Also in Alberta there is a great network of public applied research organizations ( I think yours is SAARA), they make many of their project decissions based on what locals want to know, get them involved in what you want to try. It's always better to experiment with someone elses money.

[Burbert]

Vvalk, You sound like a great farmer
already. Why do you want to push it any
more? You are making money and treating
your land well! Keep up the good work.
All the stuff that you are hearing from
friends, neighbours and angribusiness reps
about bigger yields is mostly bull
anyways, unless they are growing in an old
pig pen, then its hog manure powered not
Bull!!