Roadside Hay Salvage

[cakadu]

From my perspective, it isn't criticizing the plan so much as trying to understand it, hence the questions and comments.

What I am wondering about is if you're able to create the scenario where you can get higher prices, how long is that sustainable? How many years can producers go without producing anything? What happens when the anomaly of the higher prices disappears? Won't there be the same problems to contend with that you had before?

[wilagro]

I have been producing nothing for years and I'm still not rich. Trying to manipulate the price we get for a commodity is like sticking your head in the sand while the rest of the world goes about it's business as usual. The so-called market place will find supplies even if we produce nothing for 10 years. Sorry to rain on your parade but this scheme will not fly.

[cowman]

Now I'm no expert on FOS but I think they've got the right idea, basically. It's the old supply and demand thing. Cut the supply and the demand goes up. It doesn't make much sense to keep producing a product that is in over supply. Isn't this basically what OPEC did? And look where it got them. Sure some oil producing countries didn't go along with OPEC but it still was able to raise the price(and a lot of impoverished nations suddenly moved way up in the world). Of course they weren't competing against the US and EU treasuries like the grain producer here and in Brazil are!
But the fact of the matter is the economics of grain production in this country are shaky at best and eventually any business that can't generate enough profit is going to be toast. I figure, what have you got to lose?

[ckd129]

It neglects the free-rider problem. Your neighbours, as well as those on the international market place will respond by increasing acreage.

[mister]

Could I ask one thing of everyone? Please find out more about the FOS idea. Go to their web sight, ask for a free video and most importantly, don't look at it with a closed mind. I was among the first to laugh at this organization but after clearing my mind of traditional thinking I bought a membership.
I read some of the above comments realizing many people still don't understand FOS. You owe it to yourself.
I spent more money filling out forms for government programs and got nothing from them than the $250 membership I bought so you can watch a free video. Anyway... just learn more about Focus on Sabbatical, especially before replying to this thread,
Thanks! go to www.focusonsabbatical.com

[ckd129]

Quoting FOC:

"Our proposal's ultimate success relies on certainty of compliance. Therefore, this second step is an all or nothing proposition. Only broad based participation will verify farmers are committed and that the projected benefits are acceptable to keep them committed. All share money is held in trust until we reach our goal. In event of insufficient participation, the share money will be returned and the production contracts made void, and farmers will remain at the mercy of a ruthless market. This proposal is good for all farmers and is only possible IF most farmers participate."

I have read the website, but like they say, only possible if most farmers participate. That is a big IF!!!

8 billion bushels less production? What will this do the rest of the agriculture industry. ie) farmers do own cattle.

With the grain we do produce - will we manage it through another gov organization akin to the CWB. Only makes sense doesn't it. That way, maybe we could ensure that everyone gets a little bit of grain in the sab year. Otherwise, the rich countries will buy all the grain, because there will be a shortage and they will pay more than the poor countries. So what happens then, the poor countries livestock all dies???

We know in w. Canada that if there is no feed, then we have to sell our cattle. Take this year for example.

[plowjockey]

Well I quess there will always be people that are not willing to open their minds to a new and different perspective. I often notice quick shots at the cwb while trying to make a point.I call this the free market paranoia. At no point have I ever heard that FOS had anything to do with Government. It sounds more like a co-operative.I suppose there are some farmers that hate the idea of co-operating. It was not that long ago that our great grandfathers and grandmothers built the farms, schools, churches,and the communities we enjoy today through co-operation, hard work and initiative. I believe in free enterprise as much as the next guy, however capitalism has its flaws as well. The current state of the Stock market combined with new scandals surfacing daily prove this point! It would be great to see farmers co-operating globally to insure profit at the producer level. There has to be a balance.

[ckd129]

I wasn't trying to be overly negative, just lots of other what If's.

I believe that uniting in other ways would be more productive. In terms of buying power and selling power. Selling power - currently everyone delivers to the elevator independantly. What type of organization could be useful to better negotiate contract terms with larger corporations? Producer owned terminals have been a start.

International agreements which require the particapation of hundreds of thousands of producers will be difficult.

I wish you the best though.

[snell]

It never ceases to amaze me but it seems we are the only industry that believes the answer to low prices is to produce more. No other business does this. Even the massive oil industry understands this simple concept. It boils down to simple math and if we paid more attention to this we would naturally spend less (on inputs) and produce less. We seem to embrace every new technology that comes our way ( in fact we finance most of it) that will help us grow more than our neighbor. A lot of this new technology allows production of commodities in parts of the world that would never have a hope of producing before. Canola is a prime example. It used to be difficult to grow and took a lot of expertise and risk. It is now easier than ever to produce hence more production (except for this year).

We are driven to spend all this money to produce more and then we demand " at
least we need our cost of production" Well why is our cost of production so high
when the return is so low. If we would bring our costs in line, production would
naturally drop and prices would rise but no, we will go get an outside job to fund this craziness. We have gotten away from economic thresholds for determining our costs. If I know I can only get $100 an acre out of a crop why would I spend $120 to grow it. We have to learn to relax, spend less and enjoy life a little more. When you farm in a desert there is no amount of money is going to grow a crop big enough to support the huge grain, chemical and biotech companies we (the farmers) have created. (by the way I am not a ludite, but even this wonderful computer has tended to increase my stress level most times).

It seems to be taking me a long time to learn what my old man tried to tell me for years. Some of the most important things don't cost a lot like the importance of early sedding, crop emergance, crop competition, recycling and only spend money that is going make you more than it costs and most importantly have fun.

[ianben]

I think all farmers down on the farm need better prices whether in Canada Brazil the US or EU.
I dont believe FOS or Farmcorp are the answer though. Too many IFs and nearly immposible to reach that critical number when everyone wins.
I do believe we all need to get better at maths though!!
We must be reponsible for low prices because we will not agree a price.
Lets fix a price I dont mind where. A price below which we will not sell.

Subsidised or not todays prices are a joke to everyone except farmers.

The only people we make money out of are other farmers. It is time we all charged a realistic price for what we produce

[plowjockey]

Wow !!! What a novel Idea! We will just ask for $10. wheat and we shall recieve! Get your head out of the sand and wake up! Some of us still should go to school and learn about
1. Supply & Demand
2. Markets!
3. Effects on both 1 and 2!
Everyday we farmers learn to produce more grain and help drive down price. Farm corp hopes to control a market by controling a large enough share to do what you ask! Problems are
1. Nothing is stopping the producer from selling his grain when he or she is offered a price that they can live with. Everyone's price is different!
2. They only deal with 1 grain or commodity. I know on my farm I can gorw at least 10 dif. crops!
FOS at least attemps to achieve a goal and have everyone still in the plan. You cannot do it any other way! Course you could tell the weather Gods to have a global disaster! Which would you prefer controlled or uncontrolled. I suppose when the first railroad boys looked at the mountains the numbers were overwhelming too! Thank God that some people had the balls to beat those numbers and build something.

[ckd129]

how does the FOS prevent farmers from acting opportunistically? By telling them not to seed 1/3 of their acreage? Curious because I missed that part.

[plowjockey]

I believe there are a few ways that they could do it! As farmers it will be up to us to ultimately police for our own benefit. Its plain to see that if you can't follow through on the plan then your plan will not achieve the desired results. After all it is all of agriculture that will be rewarded when the plan is successful. You could put some type of money plan were people are rewarded for following the rules and for breaking them. I think that if open minded producers get together and come up with these last answers the plan would be a go. To get the answers for every detail when you can't even agree on the base plan would be futile. I wonder if any people in this forum has put any time into helping this organization come up with these answers with optimistic recommendations?

[cakadu]

Economics tells me that the plan will have difficulty in getting too far. What is going to be done in terms of looking for alternatives to the crops that we already grow in overabundance? What about looking at things like multi-species cropping that will yield more from the same piece of land?

To quit producing for one or even two years isn't really going to change all that much if you go back to doing what you have always done before, even if you overlook the fact that for every one producer who joins and doesn't grow wheat for one year, there will be at least one who grows more because there is the ability to do it. How long will it take to get back to the position you find yourselves in currently?

It's not that the idea doesn't have merit i.e. the cooperation versus the going it alone mentality - it's just going to take a lot to get there and have you got the time to wait until you get a critical mass? It seems to me that this idea has been floating about for 2 years or so now - where are the numbers at?

[plowjockey]

Every hour of everyday farmers like us somewhere is seeking a new and profitable crop to grow. That is reality and I have to scoff at people that think diversity is the answer! Hello we are already working on that!
The more people that join the less each producer in acreage terms would have to take out! If you had to summerfallow 1/3 could you do that! I know our farm could and some do more than that on a regular year. Bottom line the answer is there we just have to reach out and do it1 We can sit back on our paranoid worries and do the status quo or try to change! Maybe some farmers are just not hurting enough yet! After all with FOS you will know ahead of time if it will work as they simply do not go ahead with it until the #'s are there!