Roadside Hay Salvage

[plowjockey]

What a farce! The dept. of highways in Saskatcewan spend 10 of thousands of dollars each year to say that after the 15 of July hay along Highways can be salvaged by anyone! well last year I cut about 6 miles of of hay along a highway only to come back in 4 days to find all my hay gone!! A land owner baled and hauled my salvaged hay and told me I had no right to cut hay along his property! Wow! I phoned the dept of highways to get a comment and got quote!"" Possesion is 9/10 of the law!"" What kind of crap is that! I then asked the land owner who owned the land beside the Highway if he would compensate me for cutting and was promptly told to go to !@#$!! What is up with all of that?

[nakodo]

so lets see, as I understand it I put my land into fallow for a year expecting the rest of the world to experience a wheat shortage to drive prices up? You need more than Canada and Brazil to pull this off. Why not grow a crop or produce a product that a customer wants instead?I know it means changing what we do but isn't changing 50,000 farmers easier than changing a billion farmers into a single marketing coop (or is it a WWB = World Wheat Board???)

[plowjockey]

I see you really haven't looked at the FOS plan yet as there are a few things that you seem to be unaware of. Some of the U.S. farmers along with Farmers in Austrailia ,Canada, and Brazil would achieve the desired amount of crops.(a Mix Of Crops, NOT JUST WHEAT!!!)It is reasonable to believe that considering the relationship of production to price a one year 10% cut in world wheat production, (2 billion bushels), would take present prices from $2.50/bu to $6/bu. Similarly, a 4.5 billion bushel cut in feed grain production and a 1.5 billion bushel cut in oilseed production should have the ability to drastically raise the value of these crops and hold their value up for 3 years. Farmers have been diversifing for years and the small niches that are left may help very few for a short period of time.That is the reality!! Let the market place pay for the Farmer's produce not the tax payer! Maybe you have this group mixed up with another that plan to corner ther world wheat market!(Won't happen!)

[nakodo]

so why is it when world weather disasters happen our small crop production seems to have little impact on the world price. I suspect the scale of demand and the scale of our production are not in the same unit measurement, the myth of the "Canada as the bread basket of the World" is 100 years out of date, France can kick our production by herself.

We need to think about producing what people want and need, not holding them to ransom for a product already in over production.

[cakadu]

I also tend to think that human nature being what it is, if your neighbor sees you NOT planting this year, he is going to plant "wall to wall" to pick up your slack.

I agree with nakodo - time to start growing what people want and have a demand for versus something that will bring you the status quo at best.

[cowman]

One question:What crop do people want that we can actually grow here? What crop in the Palliser triangle? How about cactus?
We tried things like bison and ostriches but now nobody wants them either. Cocaine, marijuana, opium and tobbacco are products people want but our government frowns on them.
And somehow I just can't see avocados or artichokes being an option at Hanna, Alberta? I think their only option is to grow wheat or let the antelope have it back.

[plowjockey]

Iowa can produce more grain then all of Canada! What do these facts tell us? I quess you still don't get it! Maybe that is why farmers are not signing up very fast. People that think Farmers can just grow something else have not studied the options in real time. Sounds like our Ag minister!
Look at the trends its all there in Black and white! Bigger corporate farms will all rule until you can make a small farm profitable.

[bkjones]

Two questions

How is eliminating income for a full year going to make the small operation profitable? - to me it gives the advantage to the larger operation, with the cushion to withstand the lack of funds for a year.

What is wrong with large corporate farms becoming the norm in farming? - why are the small farms desirable?

[pandiana]

"What is wrong with large corporate farms becoming the norm in farming? - why are the small farms desirable?"

Small Farms Are:

More efficient: Works directly with task at hand without dealing with employees, contractors which frequently results in scheduling problems, time off etc. Equipment is usually smaller and more efficient. Also, employees usually have less regard for the land, and all efficiencies built in to the job.

More environmentally friendly: The farmer that farms the land walks the land and knows it more intimately, allowing them to head off potential problems before they become a big problem. The land is not only his means of making a living but it is his major investment and his home.

More economical: One farmer or family unit works long hours most often without regard to incorporating labor into value, let alone yardage.

More fun: I have often heard from others what I believe myself, that when one is stressed (a condition that follows life regardless of occupation) walking through your cows is the best possible stress reliever. Looking out over your land, watching crops and animals grow, following the continuity of the seasons as each unfolds. You can have the satisfaction of knowing that you are directly involved in each and every part of the working of this small unit of production.

[rodbradshaw]

1)The world has changed since the last time a cartel was put in to place for agricultural production. The capacity of all areas, especially the southern hemisphere has dramatically increased in the last forty years.
2) Large scale farms are sometimes highly levered(high risk-high reward philosphy) and cannot afford to stop cold turkey and wait a year to resume cash flow. The other thing is what do you do with all the employees that would have to be laid off. Sons, daughters and neighbours tossed to the wolves on the gamble of higher expectations. Once these people leave you will not be able to attract them back as the uncertainty of what might happen two to three years down the road.
3) Banks are not going to lend you money to sit out for a year unless you have mega resources. This plan will also effect people in the supply side of the business as agribusiness will have to fire staff as their will be no service required. This could be the death knell for some small town businesses as well as some of the larger higher levered businesses.
4) The only way to solve the problem of income in agriculture is to permanently eliminate production capacity. If we continue to produce we will continue to wither on the vine.

[plowjockey]

1) Obviously the world is changing! Last time I checked Brazil and Austrailia were in the southern hemishere.Farmers all over the globe are told that and trained to think that more grain is more profit!
2) Who said anything about No Cash flow! Once again I find someone who has taken the time out to criticize but not to educate themselves with the Focus On Sabatical plan. If you made 2 -3 times the revenue as a regular year why would you lay off your employees?
3)Every Banker that I have talked to loves the plan after they looked at it! The supply part of industry does not give a shit about the primary producer as long as they get loads of cheap produce to move! That is where they make there money!! As far as small towns go, Look at them now and wake up they are not thriving by any means! How would they be hurt if the industry that supports them was profitable again?
4)Yep you got this one right and it is the corner stone that Fos have built there plan on! Who would be stopping another controled reduction of grains in the future to help all farmers maintain a living? Certainly not the farmer! Not government, look at the tax revenue that could be spent on other things ie health care, roads, and education!

[rodbradshaw]

Plowjockey
Just a couple of Questions.
1) Where is the money going to come from to place the hedges and buy the physical stocks to drive the price of the grain up?
2) Who is going to determine when to sell physical stocks and or get out of hedges or what ever instrument that is used for the commodity trades?
3) As Nakodo said France has the ability to produce more cereal grains than we do, Iowa produces more than all of Canada let alone Kansas. You are going to need all of the U.S., Brazil, Thailand, Australia, China,Argentina and Canada to have good participation to make any dent in the production. The idea that you can drive prices that high and generate income the year before may work the second time if the sabbatical is successful but there are a lot of government held stocks especially in the EU that will hit the market and hold prices down. The other thing with this new US farm bill is that there is less concern again about the market price as there was in the Freedom to Farm legislation of the last bill.

I am not against the idea, but I personally believe that it is not as simple the proponents of the plan have lead you to believe.

[rodbradshaw]

$15 dollars /acre on a third of my acres is for easy calculating is $7500. In our area that could be 30,000 bushels of CWRS,37,500 CPS, 55,000 of feed barley, or 20,000 of canola off 500 acres of land. If this plan is to work their is going to have to be a more sever penalty than two bushels of canola ( at $7.50). If you can drive the price of wheat from 4 to 6 dollars, that would mean an extra revenue of $60,000 for an extra investment of $7500. Large farmers may look at it just like spraying that extra fungicide.

[rodbradshaw]

It would not be good for the grain terminals, processing plants trucking companies ect.

[plowjockey]

I don't think large farms will treat it like that at all. They over the long term and short stand to make very well if the grain prices were to rise 2-3 times. A large part of the truckers are farmers themselves trying to put groceries on the table. Maybe the rest could haul us new equipment to replace our 20 year old stuff! Farmers always spend money! Grain terminals well when is the last time you got a check from Cargil for the early loading of a ship or a bonus for your loyalty, Or did you just have to pay more for that feed bag because of price fixing! Sometimes it is just easy to criticize than to try and help shape a plan to solve the problems. Don't get me wrong it is good to check all angles out!