How much is fair mark up on crop inputs

[tower]

Hey wilagro, I appreciate hearing that there are still some who realize what we lost when the quotas went.

Chyaffmeister, how were they inefficient, and costly? The idea of them was not to give benefit to traders, it's my experience that when you are the type to make pronouncements you are less likely to be the type that is willing to learn.

highwayman, please let me know what is the tie in between quotas and mining the farm. I don't follow your argument. Perhaps it is more appropriate to another thread.

I think the quota system does have a socialist basis. There are several aspects of life in Canada that have similar philosophical backgrounds. In large part they have made Canada a better place to live. Quotas recognized that the country and the land needs farmers who are there, taking care of it.

[tower]

I'd like to see suppliers of farm inputs take the same sort of level of markup as grain producers have been asking for and recieving for the last twenty years, in recognition of the value we each provide to society.

[parsley]

"Quotas recognized that the country and the land needs farmers who are there, taking care of it."


If you want to tell jokes, start another thread.

Parsley

[tower]

Tom4cwb, I've had the odd fight with bureaucratic arms of governmental policy direction. I have to say that the frustration and anger over MIS-direction and mistakes made by such organizations can get to be overwhelming. unto death in some circumstances. A useful point to remember is that we all die sooner than later anyway.

It should be better to bear in mind that there are benefits as well from even such as these. With a good group of farmer directors and independance from governmental ... good intentions... this is a board that could do us good as grain producers. Much more so than your average multinational.

[freewheat]

What I would do to fix the board? Get rid of it. Completely. Along with the CBC. State run garbage should be banned in this country. I used to be a dual proponent, and was willing to allow the board a chance, but now I simply want them gone. That would fix the CWB question.

[tower]

state run road construction, and maintenance, state run health care, state run military, state run police, state run schools, state run courts, state run pet control, state run meteorological service, state run welfare and unemployment services, state run seniors care, yah, a little foresight would get rid of all this.

[AdamSmith]

Tower, the quota system was a hold over from world war II rationing mentality.

The quota system for grain delivery was one of the most offensive parts of the system. The contract call system while still offensive is "less" offensive.

There was no difference in principle with an elevator agent saying to a farmer

"You can only haul another 200 bushels and then you must wait until a new quota is put on"

Than a shop owner in the old Soviet Union saying to someone...

"You are not allowed anymore meat this month as you have already filled your ration alotment for the month, and I see no more toilet paper either, tsk tsk."

[silverback]

Sure is too bad that all farms are not still 160 acres each and we use w6 tractors and cabless combines, everyone raised some chickens, pigs, dairy cows, geese and everyone was equal. Is this your utopia Tower?

How can you decide for me when I get to, no, want to sell my grain?

[highwayman]

tower
To clarify for you, the acreage based quota system never worked for those producer who strived to maximize production with proper inputs and management. There was very seldom an opportunity to sell all of ones production on most years in our area. The cost of carryover came directly out of the producers pocket. Those producers who choose not to be good stewards of the land and rather mine the soil were happy with the quota system because they very rarely grew any more then the alloted delivery opportunites anyway. The end result was to discourage growers of growing board grains that they cant market and move to other grains that provided them with the cash flow and timely market opportunities that they needed to sustain their business. The shift to pulses and oilseeds has shown that producers want a system that allows them to deliver their production as they see fit without limitations based on acerage. I fail to see how a quota system recognizes farmers taking care of the land when it styfles their productivity.

[AdamSmith]

I don't believe the cwb can be repaired, nor do I believe any right thinking business oriented farmer wouold wish it to survive, sorry tom.

The reason I say this and believe this is because of politics. The CWB has evolved from a political animal in the vein of a crown corporation, to a overtly partisan political animal to the point of being an unofficial arm of the Liberal Party of Canada.

Decision are made for political reasons and political reasons alone. The people who have worked for the cwb in the past do not move on to other careers in the grain business, they move on to political careers in the Liberal Party of Canada, (Measner, Rohle).

Ralph Goodale's 1998 ammendments created a political frankenstein with political campaign type director elections, and patronage appointments, and the like, and all of it have nothing to do with selling grain in the most efficent manner and with the growers best interests at heart.

This incarnation of the cwb is nothing more than a nightmare, and deserves nothing more than to be closed down permanantly.

For cwb supporters and maybe some other dual market enthusiests, you guys need to start from scatch if you/they think there is a need or a demand for such a marketing organization.

But this one is not the foundation in which to build.

The ash heap of failed experiments is where Ralph Goodales CWB belongs.

[TOM4CWB]

Tower,

Your point; "a board [the CWB] could do us good as grain producers. Much more so than your average multinational."

The Sales Dept at the CWB must use these "Average Multinational" organisations in almost every transaction somewhere. The reason they don't mind the CWB [and put up with all the stupid insults from the CWB] is because they can often make much greater profits with the CWB in place.

On many of the "State Run" services we have, an option and choice is clearly avaliable.

Mail almost qualifies, Purolator is owned by Canada Post while a dozen other private/multi co's are providing good value for money to deliver my overnight documents. That regular mail can't have competition is something we should think about resolving.

Health Care has private doctors providing the services, large chunks of services have NO government involvement for many Canadians; ie eye care, dental, the list is huge.

On Weather the private providers often are much better at forecasting than Environment Canada.

Alberta has private delivery of Road Maintance services, it has reduced costs by huge amounts. Roads ARE built by Private providers provincially.

We have Law Enforcement with choice in Alberta; EDM. Calg. and many other communites like their own forces better than the RCMP.

Canada even contracts out a good chunk of Military Services needed to other nations when we can do this for less like Air Transport of Equipment ETC.

I personally agree with the Conservatives that the CWB should remain as an option, yet my better half insists her life would be much simpler and better if the CWB were gone.

Co-operative marketers in the US do a large part of buying the produce grown.

Canada history has proven that the entities with the leadership you request have been a complete failure. What makes you think you can select people better than those who have gone before us?

The Ausies and the AWB are not much better, although they have some well managed co-operatives that have provided great return on investment... because they were run in a competitive market place by folks who were good managers.

If Ward becomes Pres./CEO, it would be the biggest mistake since picking Adrian. Inbred "Single Minded" people will/are single handedly destroy/ing the CWB.

The CEO of a tall building was alerted that there was a crack that had appeared on the 43rd floor of an office building.

The CEO called the building designer to come and see the crack and tell him what was wrong.

He was told the engineer was comming to inspect the building at 10:00am

The CEO as on the 43rd floor beside the crack at 10:00am that day, but the engineer did not show up!

The Engineering company was phoned, and asked why no one had shown up!

The Building CEO was told the engineer was there and was on the 6th floor basement inspecting the building and figuring out how to repair the building!

The Building CEO went to the 6th floor basement and found the engineer calculating and examining damage he had found.

Someone had been stealing bricks from the foundation of the building for a building project he had at home, the result was the crack on the 43rd Floor.

The CWB clearly has some foundation problems that are very serious. Ward and Adrian are obvious detrators/underminers; that to a large extent responsible for the cracks and leaning leadership in the CWB operations today.

As well there are at least 6 "intellegent and popular" directors that are as responsible as Ward and Adrian, even though the leaders are responsible and will be blamed.

All will be blamed for the collapse of the CWB.

And I, Tom4CWB... because I bring to the attention of those responsible..., the real and ever increasing dangers of the crumbling foundation of the CWB...

I
Am
Being
Blamed
for
Destroying
The
C
W
B
!

Because these folks won't even talk to me... let alone do anything the impending collapse at the 6th floor in the basement.

I have provided the opportunity, the logical reasoning of why I hold valid and constructive solutions, And I care enough to offer my leadership at the expense of my farm and family.

I cannot be held responsible for the CWB's destruction.


I know, I am just a stupid farmer that has never marketed any wheat or barley in my life. Only the CWB can "Market" grain!

[chaffmeister]

Unfortunately, Tower, you don’t know what you gained when you lost quotas.

You asked about efficiency and cost – all I have ever do here on Agriville is talk about CWB costs and inefficiency. (Oh yeah, poor marketing performance too).

It seems you haven’t been paying attention.


Tower, you said (aimed at me) “it's my experience that when you are the type to make pronouncements you are less likely to be the type that is willing to learn.”

Tower, it’s my experience that those that do their defending through offending (aimed at you), don’t know how to defend what it is they are defending. In fact, many don’t even know what it is that they’re defending. I wonder – do you know what you’re defending?

At least I support everything I say with facts or through personal experience.

<b>What is so bloody sacred about the CWB that you can’t even see its shortcomings?</b>

I mean its REAL shortcomings – not the governance structure, not the fact that there could be livestock people on the board, or that the board members might not be up to the task, or that some board members may not be farmers. Who cares who’s on the board? The CWB costs you money – REAL money. Through higher total costs (not just CWB admin costs), poorer performance, and system inefficiencies (remember shipping wheat from Montreal and Churchill to Vancouver? what a joke). It doesn’t matter who is on the board of Canadian Whip and Buggy – it still sells whips and buggies (or grain marketing services) that benefits no farmer.

I want to note that in previous postings we’ve talked about these issues and you've avoided any reasonable discussion about them. If you are personally ill-equipped to tackle these issues, there’s no shame in admitting it. What is shameful is when people take a strong position to keep the CWB and have no depth to support their argument or counter the real arguments about CWB-value and instead rely on their gut-feeling - and in doing so, injure other farmers along the way. (Aimed at wilagro, BennyHin, Burbert, Evader, Agstar77, and Tower.) If any of you have the depth to reasonably and rationally argue in favour of the CWB on the issues of performance and cost/efficiencies, let’s hear it. As I said before, convince me and I will argue in favour of the CWB as loudly as y’all do.

[Fransisco]

I noticed making the whole deal <b>"voluntary"</b> never made your list tower.

How do you propose to deal with all of the farmers such as myself that are not interested in participating in your grand vision?

Can we agree to disagree and go our separate ways or is it leg irons and a 4x8 concrete cell with a frisky 300 lb tattooed roommate named bubba for us?

[brian99]

Hate to tell you this, Darren, but retail mark up can be around 100%. Every business sector is different, and it varies by product, but that's where it's at. Some hot products(like running shoes) can be 200% and more. I don't know where crop products are at. If you're talking about net profit, that's different. Most retailers rely on volume to lower overhead costs and increase profitability. Retail is a tough game and farmers have very little knowledge of it.

[Fransisco]

Amazing how the thread always dries up when you ask questions about CWB performance and throwing farmers in jail for wanting to sell their own crop.