cost of production

[wmoebis]

I was just working on cost of production spread sheets and was wondering what everyone else is putting in for costs?
Fuel
Fertilizer
Chem
Trucking
Crop Ins.
Whith prices moving daily, How is one to estimate accuratly?

[nicolaas]

no room for particulars, but my total cost (incl rent, land payments, equip, seed, fert, labor, etc) has gone from 175.00/acre up to 217.00/acre to grow 5020 or 45h26, and up to 175.00/acre to grow wheat/barley. Need to get a bigger operating loan as I have been unable to move any grain since early January. I need average to above even at these "higher" prices, and a crop failure will be devastating. With a good crop, I will easily clear all debts, and have enough left over for a couple of new combines!! This year will definitly make or break a guys operation. Exciting times for sure.

[darren442]

Nicolaas you said your inputs have gone up may i ask if your yield has went up as well or did it stay the same?

FYI there are ways to cut your chemical rates in half and still have great weed control as well there are ways to cut your N way down and your P as well and have no K either you'll still need S and have better crops then ever (as long as your using liquid fert) . As well there is a way to grow peas for about 15 bucks an acre not including the seed.
Sound interesting?

[tower]

darren442, always interested in alternatives, what have you got?

[nicolaas]

darren, when you say I can grow peas for 15.00 an acre, you must not be including the cost of anything. I can choose to ignore numbers and costs, and my total cost to grow and take off a crop can be quite low, but I still end up having to pay for these things that I chose to ignore. Wow, it costs a minimum of $6.00 an acre just to cultivate or heavy harrow your field, and equipment has to be replaced. If a farmer takes into account his true costs, I know my costs are in line. I am only cropping 4000 acres with older equipment, but I practice notill, utilize generic chemicals at reduced rates etc. That makes my costs at the lower end. I have no unnecessary equipment and have not touched a cultivator in years. I even stopped building bins and utilize a grain bagger now. It was only about 15 years ago when the rule of thumb was about $100/acre to put in a crop and take it off. Those were the days of cheap seed, imputs,equipment,etc. (though roundup was a bit much). I simply stated that the input costs have increased across the board, and if you have low yields or a crop failure ....good luck.

[nicolaas]

Sorry Darren, I should say that my costs for the first post were to plant and harvest the stated crops, and include all costs incurred for the year.

[darren442]

If anybody is interested in hearing about ways to have even germ and emergence under stress, larger denser root mass, more early vigor and improved stress resistance,improved growth in saline soils, improved drought resistance better flowering and pod development, improved crop vigo reduce crop stress improved crop quality . We also help with heat and drought, excessive moisture, poor growing conditions, low fertility soil,chemical stress, disease, we also deal with hard pan soil compaction, poor water infiltration, shallow rooting SALINITY. We can do all this and in alot of cases WITHOUT increasing costs. This has been going on for 29 years in Sask and on over 250,000 acres. And it's all safe to use and handle.It's so safe it can be used on organic farms. Contact me at darren.soil@gmail.com with some contact info and i'll tell you how it's done.

[darren442]

Here are some facts. Out of all the nitrogen you apply only 30-60% is used by the plant. So were does all the rest go ? it gases off, run off or right pass the roots and possibly right into your water. Some studies show by adding micros nutrient uptake can be as low as 3% . So on the best case if you put in the ground 100 lbs of nitrogen at the best 40 lbs is beeing lost . So if you can improve the effeciancey up to 80-90% then you should only need to put down the tube 40-50 lbs of N, then a little boost later. And fact by applying high rates of N to soils low in Sulphur this may induce or intensify sulphur deficiency in the crop. We spend alot of time paying attention to whats above ground and more attention should be made to whats below ground. Ever noticed that some crops don't do that well if canola was cropped the previus year ? I can explain why. There is research explaining how glyphosate is damaging your soil. We have been able to cut herbiced usualy 30% and up to 50% and increase weed kill with the lower rate. We pound down the fertilizer and use alot of chemical then when our yields don't increase and alot of times decrease we look to cut costs elsewere but studies are showing that the high rates of fertilizer and chemical is the reason for this trend of more fert but no better yields. And further more your crop supply dealer aint going to educate on this because they need to keep there supplier's happy

[bgmb]

A few facts,

a bu of wheat removes 1.5 lb on N
a bu of canola removes 1.9 lb of N

a bu of wheat removes .6 lb of P
a bu of canola removes .9lb of p

And it takes about 30% more in the soil to grow the crop.

ex. a 40bu/ac crop of canola will need,

n-p-k-s
120-52-94-24

and what same crop will remove,

75-36-18-13


Darren what you are saying sounds too good to be true. I guess if you want to mine your soil or your yield potential is very low for other reasons you might get away with your low rates.

[bluefargo]

When I worked in the ag business I used to have a "Questionable products " file . Every few years something new would come along to put in the file. After 25 years it got pretty fat.
I know its a cliche but if it sounds too good to be true it probably is.

[hobbyfrmr]

Darren442,

I am an organic farmer, I am interested in the product you describe. It will have to be on the list as an acceptable product for the USDA NOP certification.

[darren442]

To respond to these questions our customers yields meet and beat other farmers. Bgmd your thinking like a crop supplier . And for a 40 bu of canola sure it needs 120 lbs of N, Of dry fertilizer low grade poor effeciancy 46-0-0. If your using dry fert we can only help so much but if your using Liquid WOW thats were we can take 20 gallons of 28-0-0 ( remeber 3 lbs of N per gallon ( and make it work like 120 Lbs of 46-0-0. And why so much K remember K on the salt index is 116 table salt is 165 would you plant seed into table salt ?? And if your soil is low in S adding high rates of N can put your crop into a S defficiency. FACT
And Bluefargo files get fat like that beacause what crop supplier wants to loose up to half his income . Keep the farmer dumb so we can keep selling fert and chem i did it to and i will never do it again.I'm not saying all crop suppliers think like that because they don't but some do. If i come out to see a farmer for the first time i do not want to see a cheque book any were near me.

And yes we have certified organic products. And organic farmers have been using them for years and are very very happy.

Our way of thinking goes back as far as the 1920. back in 1921 a gentleman wrote a book about all this his name was John Bracken.In his book Roy Hansen M.S professor of Soils University of Saskatchewan writes
" It should be the business of every progressive farmer to give as much thought to the soil he is working as he does to his machinery or animals. Just as his farm animals and machinery fail to give good returns from bad treatment,so the soil will likewise fail to produce under irrational treatment"

So now i ask if your putting on 120 lbs of N ect for a 40 bu canola then if you put on 130 pounds do you get 50 bu an acre ??? and so on and so on. Now if we can achieve a healthy living soil and use are chemicals and fertilizer more effeciantly then to reach that 40 bu/ac we will not need 120 lbs of N and less chemicals.

[darren442]

One last note we are recognized by a provincial government to be a environmental company. We have been doing this for 29 years.

And if you have Salinty problems with are system you will see results in reducing your salinty problems the first year. If you want to talk email me at darren.soil@gmail.com with some contact info and we'll start there.

[bgmb]

I'll try to be more clear Darren,

Below is a list of macro nutrients that are needed to grow a 40 bu/ac crop of canola.

A 40 bu crop in the swath on average will contain;
n-p-k-s
120-52-94-24

The 40bu/ac that you haul off the field on average will contain;
n-p-k-s
75-36-18-13

If your average canola yield is 40 bu/ac and you aren't adding on average 75-36-18-13 then you are mining your soil of nutrients end of story.

Nutrients don't appear out of thin air and go into your soil. I suppose small amounts may come in with rain? and pulse crops will put N out of the air into the soil but beyond that the only way to add nutrients to your soil is to use fertilizer.

I don't personally like the idea of paying to use nutrients I already own (jumpstart). I will spend my money on nutrients no some bull@hit product that claims the impossible.

[bluefargo]

Darren - Until you identify this miracle product(s) we are all just wasting our time talking about it are't we.

I have seen these things come and go for many years. I am very sceptical.