BinVigor?

[buckwheat]

Saskfarmer you have a lot of good points very good discussion from everyone. But back to the initial question try some for yourself you won't be disappointed.I was scared to try it but convinced myself to try it I am now going to seed alot more.

[timm]

Cervus Limited Partnership is Canada's Largest John Deere Dealer Group

* 11 Locations across Western Canada

* 2004 Revenue of $142 million

* 2004 Net income of $3.7 million

* Distributions of .08 per month per unit since January 2005
(05 profits up 33%-shares doubled in last 3 months on tse)this farming is really starting to piss me off as well.

[wedino]

Monsanto 1/3 litre is equal to clearout 1/2 litre. Now that monsanto has lowered their price, I expect Glyphos to come out at $4.00/ litre. IMHO

[ward.toma]

With regards to the comments about treating with Helix in the F2 trials: as it says in the presentation, all trials had the same treatments. This is not a realistic farm level comparison because, as you all know, availability of Helix is restricted and not generally available to farmers using farm saved seed. A true representation of what farmers are doing would have had a trial of helix treated certified versus farm saved with no treatment or another treatment that is available. But that would have skewed the results and made the data non-comparable.

Ward Toma
Alberta Canola Producers

[sawfly]

why would any self respecting farmer buy anthing other than the clear out 41 glyphosate.

the patent has been off for 15 years, and did monsanto or any other company compete price wise? Not on Your Life

So for 15 years we have paid more than double the price that would give a good rate of return for the companys produceing it.

lets take a 2500 acre No till farm
with burn off,Rdp canola and some fall in crop . would use 2500 liters product at least.

consider the $8 or $9 or $ 11 we paid in this peroid, with out any real competition.
with actual competition from FNA agri city drop the price to $4 wow!
2500 liters x $4.00 to 4.50 = 10,000$ a year , at least
thats 10,000 a year x 15 years = $150,000

thats more than my x wife cost me

and we wonder why were going broke .

How about a 150,000$ Rebate


Now if they meet or even undercut clearout . they don't deserve our business.

Remember Treflan and the generic trifluralex .
treflan was more money every year ,then the generic came in from isreal. droped the price and treflan followed.

farmers gradually drifted back to treflan . the generic dissapeared .
treflan has had a free ride ever since. From a low of 10$ acre then , to what $17 -20$ now.

I guess that where the saying Dumb Farmer comes from

[sawfly]

Saskfarmer,have you ever experienced damaging at sparaying on f2 plants?

[sawfly]

Saskfarmer,have you ever experienced damaging at sparaying on f2 plants?

[SASKFARMER]

We have been doing this for 4 years now and yes the chemical does kill the odd plant at spraying but this could be volentary roundup ready canola since we use to be big users of this product.
No visable damage to any of the plants that were actively growing.
like said before try some on own farm and then make decision on own.

[SASKFARMER]

I've tried it myself, and have found it to work well,but like I said earlier in the thread I'm young and can't afford mistakes. Some people say it makes a differnce from year to year on what f2 plants will do. Don't understand why it should matter from year to year. Saskfarmer you are right in saying try a plot yourself and see if you like it or not, I'm pretty sure most guys won't be dissapointed. For the guys reading these threads sitting on a bunch of money from the seventies yet, try it what do you have to lose.

[Private-i]

SASKFARMER, i have a problem with one of your statements earlier. I work for an independant chem retailer (agronomist) and i am wondering why you think we are out to screw you over. My job depends on your survival so while i try to make an honest dollar for the business i believe that i provide a service for that dollar and i am always trying to give the best recommendation possible keeping in mind your bottom line at all times as well. My recommendation on the binvigor issue is sure try some and see for yourself, we have a large grower near our retail location that has tried this for several years now and has seen mixed results. This last year he saw the best F2 results he has ever had but it still was 5.7 bushels less than his certified. Everything got the same with the exception of helix on his F2 because he could not get access to it. He regularly seeds at 3.3 pounds per acre so if you figure 5.50/lb for seed that is 18.15/acre whereas the diff. in yield using 4$/bu for canola is 22.8/acre. This grower in my opinion is one of the most forward thinking and smart farmers in the area. This being said i have heard reports from other growers in the area that their F2 is matching the yield of their certified invigor. I have also heard of growers citing differences in binvigor performance between 2663 and 5000 series, with the 2663 performing better. I farm with my father-in-law as well so i look at this from both sides, i don't think that your independant local retails are out to get you, they are trying to help you make decisions to maintain the viability of your farming operation.

p.s. -- my grower will once agin be trying binvigor this year and we will use a wiegh wagon to figure out the results again this year. As for Bayer turning away growers coming to buy Liberty that did not purchase certified seed IMHO it will never happen.

[SASKFARMER]

My problem with Retailers is that they need to let the chem companys know that farmers are falling behind with their bills.
Not how do we try to get the same dollar out of the farmer with new programs.
Yes the profit of dealers is a pretensious issue with me. I have been on the local coop board and it is amazing that they paid for a 200000 building in under 5 years, must be a profit in their for buisness.
Your forward thinking farmer is nice to see trying new things is great.
Yes we have seeded hybrids as low as 3 lbs an acre with a lower seed cost but if their is a seed problem like the last frost year certified seeds vigor from frost damage is an issue. to make certified the standards are set but when a farmer is buying the seed he asks for certified he should check the bag tags could be #2 certified. simply add a little extra to seed and then dont have that problem.
Ok now my problem with retailers and their agronomists is simple they have products to sell. These sales are used to pay bills wage etc. I have seen way to many examples of local agrologists out looking at fields and recomending that the farmers spray, disease etc.
A independent agrologist hired by the farmer is the best way to have an unbias answer.
On our farm two years ago the local retailer arrived at our farm with chem rep and his agrologist just for a chat, that turned into a strong recomendation that our wheat was loaded with disease and should be sprayed.because of our acreage they would help custom spraying along side our machine.
I phoned my agrologist after he came out that afternoon and recomended that I spray one field on Wheat on wheat and watch one. He charged 200.00 for the day and saved me $45,000.00 dollars.
Also my main point in this thread is that farmers are loosing the battle they have to question all.
We are not a subsidised country like the USA or Europe.
have a good day.

[Private-i]

I will agree that there are some agronomists that just walk into a field and say SPRAY SPRAY SPRAY, however there are a lot of us that really look at things and make the proper recommendations. If you go to a retailer and find an agronomist that you trust he would have come out and made the same recommendation to spray one field and you would have saved another 200 bucks as well. Maybe for the 1st couple of years you keep your paid agronomist to check the retails recommendations, but once you get comfortable then you can rely on your local guy. I personally don't bring reps to a field to scout unless i have a question or problem area that i can't figure out,and then i get several opinions as well. In your case i would have like to have had the rep and your paid agronomist there at the same time and to see what would have happened

[SASKFARMER]

You are trying to work with farmers and It seems your retailer trusts you.
this is nice to see but I still get emails regularly from individuals who dont get the service they deserve.
Again the agrologist that I use I went to UofM with so Now I have to pay a little vs steak and beer like it was years ago. We all have to make a living.
Again farmers are loosing every day and all I am trying to get them to do is Ask questions and question every thing.

[Private-i]

also we are letting the companies know that there are bills that are not getting paid, and it also shows b what we are able to prebuy from then at yearend as well. Yes we have products to sell that is my job, but i have a vested interest in your survival as a grower as well. so it is in my best interest to give you the proper recommendation all the time, whether you use it is up to you.

[Hockey12]

Dear SASKFARMER,

I am new to this site and find a number of your entries very intriguing. Just to let you know where I am coming from, I currently farm ~1500 acres, do some consulting and contract work on the side and, in the past, have worked for both large chem companies and grain/crop input companies. So have a wealth of experience in all areas of Western Canadian agriculture.

It seems as though you have a vendetta against all large corporations and companies currently doing business in Canada. Over the past few years, I will be the first to admit that farming has been a rough go. That being said, this is the business we have chosen and we find ways to get by.

Let’s start with the chem companies. You say they are ripping us off and price gouging and feeding us with “smoke up our ass”. I would debate this is very untrue. These corporations do business and invest in Canada for a reason. Yes they are in it for profit also, but what business isn’t? Without these companies investing in Canada, us as farmers would be disadvantaged to other ag producing countries. They provide ongoing research and development, which in essence has changed the way we farm. Let’s take direct seeding for example: Where would we be without Roundup in a direct seeding situation? How would we produce a 40 bu canola crop on stubble without herbicide tolerance? Yes these come at a cost, but I can remember spending $25/ac on Treflan or Muster Gold to produce a 30 bu/ac canola crop on summerfallow. Herbicide tolerant canola varieties have made canola growing EASY, which maybe is a bad thing because now we have too much supply in the system and prices are depressed. That being said, I would never go back to the “old ways” of farming. Chem companies are in business to make a profit, but they also spend many $ locally by ways of donations, scholarships and community support. Our son received a $2000 scholarship from Monsanto for university and Bayer funded $ to our local curling rink. Where else would you get that?

Now to the crop input dealers. You say they too are making too much money off of you and you’d rather buy cheap products elsewhere. Who is the first person farmers ask for a donation to the local bonspiel or golf day, or skating rink fundraiser? These guys work they’re tail off from early in the morning till late at night during spring to serve us “the farmer”. Maybe they should all shut the doors and move to Alberta to the oil patch? Will you then keep your local curling rink going by donating that $1/ac you saved buying a Chinese glyphosate from a US retailer? I don’t see FNA supporting any local community initiatives…

Now I remember doing farm calls and going to trade shows in my past working life. I felt it hard to feel sorry for some of these guys as they spent their winters in Arizona and left their brand new Duramax idling in the parking lot at trade shows every year.

Bottom line, I know first hand things aren’t good in the world of farming. That being said, I don’t feel cutting out local, national and multi-national businesses from doing business here is the way out. So I ask you sir to please think about that next time you clean up you seed or head south for a better deal…