BinVigor?

[shamus]

I totally agree with Saskfarmer. A few of our neighbours in the late 60's, early 70's were having "****seed" yielding in the 40's. Don't remember what it was worth back then but my father and many others stuck with growing 20ish b./acre wheat and selling for dick all and these guys after wisely investing their winfall are still having trouble spending their interest after all these years. The funniest thing is rarely do they get those kind of yields with the 6.00/lb. canola!!! The seed companies now are the ones having the trouble spending their interest. And yes I too don't believe all the bull about the wonderfull new varieties. My long term average over 12 seasons is around 22 with 30 realized only once. Nobody in this RM has a better fertility program than me and I use all the latest in varieties and in equipment but keep getting broker buying expensive seed and fert. listening to the long trail of B.S. coming out of their mouths!!! As for a 10% yield drop in bin run LL; who cares. My high priced 5000 series with 90 20 00 10 did not make 30 when right beside it an RR with half the fert. did 10 bush. more. So go stick it!!!

[WildTomato]

Wow. No wonder you guys are choked. The common theme that I'm hearing is that you're spending 30 to 40 bucks alone on N and 30 bucks an acre on seed and still only averaging 22 bushels an acre. Even at 8 bucks a bushel that doesn't make sense to me. Why bother seeding canola?

[WildTomato]

I totally agree with you saskfarmer, unlike the rest of these guys I'm willing to listen to suggestion. I'm only 24 years old, and you have been doing this for 30 years - you can't argue with experience. I've grown home grown Invigor for 4 years now. Never the whole the farm, but always a 1/4 section and the rest of the acres, 2lb, certified, 2lb homegrown works great. This year I'm going all homegrown because with a weigh wagon my homegrown out yielded my certified. You guys also have to remember, at $5 canola you can give up 5 bushels just for seed alone. Saskfarmer, you talk about smoke up our ass I agree. Ther is a lot of talk out here saying you won't get liberty unless you have receipts showing seed sales. Bayer reps have always told me that they're aren't worried about home grown, because farmers will try it and find out it doesn't work, then come back to certified. My question to you guys is if Bayer says it won't work why are they so concerned were're doing it? [because it won't work right?]. Thanks saskfarmer I could really use more experienced advice like yours.

[waller]

Great topic and discusion. I agree with what most of you who have been saying if we don't control our costs we will be done. Especially with with input costs the way they are not just for canola but all crops. I have read this with great interest but am not sure if the original topic question has been answerd or not. Can you grow binvigor succesfully? From what I have read only a couple on here have tried it. Anyone looking at some summerfallow this yr. I know I am.

[kotyjo]

wild tomato cost for fert on 3000 acres of canola 80lbs x .32 last years price =25.6 cost an acre and then add phos 4.75

Bin Vigor works so does all other varieties, pursuit, -----up etc.

[kotyjo]

Also wild tomato you probably live in Alberta have a Superior CASIP program than the rest of canada have production insurance and price insurance. In the rest of the world with minimal coverage on gov programs one has to watch all costs.
Land values are higher in Alberta due to Oil thats it Oil either its speculators buying the land or farmers figuring if land is available I have to pay above market to get it and the land values escalate.
Simply what I am trying to say Canola was born in Saskatchewan and works well in the melfort tisdale area it isnt known as the land of **** and honey for nothing.
Now again if you are a farmer who has oil wells gas wells daddys fortune won the lottery lucked out in 1979 etc. Real costs you are not familiar with to all the other farmers watch your costs the chem fert etc are there to make a buck not lose like a farmer.

[WildTomato]

The original topic was about seeding bin-vigor. So far, nobody has disputed that, so end of story. I said that I saw a 10% yield difference between the binvigor and invigor. That is what I saw and that is only one year. Next year could be different.
Seed and chem companies ripping us off, government subsidies, land values and oil and gas revenues are completely different. Everyone has to do a better job of controlling costs and capitalizing on opportunities when they arise. That's what makes us successful.

[mhartman]

Ag Canada will be presenting their results on F2 InVigor canola performance relative to Certified at the Agronomy Update in Red Deer on Jan. 10/11, and I believe also at Sask Crop Production Week. Their work was funded and instigated by the provincial canola commissions.

[SASKFARMER]

Wow you put alot in AG Canada findings
Give me a break!.
AG canada is conected to Canola councils who get funding from Monsanto Bayer, who get funding from the feds who get funding for elections from Bayer and Monsanto.
Dont believe me At the University of Manitoba there is a new wing may as well be called the Monsanto wing.
Does any one believe in out system any more.
I for one do not put much in the report by Ag canada since I work for them and see all the B S that goes on.
Farmers if the Goverment or their agencies or agencies that are supose to represent farmers all did actually achieve something dont you think by now farmers would finally be better off. Just a thought!

[cheapskidoo]

Not to sound like a chem company man, but last year we recieved a 12,000 cheque from Bayer on the Invigor/Centurion/Puma/Stratego offer. I am not a fan of the rebate programs but we use these products every year anyways. We seeded 1000acres of canola so this is roughly $12/acre. Our seed cost is around $20/acre so this is about $8/acre extra. WE are contemplating seeding Binvigor but for $8/acre are struggling to find the savings in it. It seems like a viscous circle.

[SASKFARMER]

Yea my rebate came in around 12000 on 2400 or more acres.
Still deduct it from cost.

Rebates are a joke of farming monsanto over charges for round up and then gives farmers a rebate most farmers think there doing ok.
Seed 1/2 1/2 and still get rebate etc.
just you save money not BAYER

[ward.toma]

The Alberta Canola Producers Commission (ACPC) does not recieve any funding from any private sector sources or government sources. Our funding comes from canola farmers. The Saskatchewan Canola Development Commission(SCDC)is funded the same way.

These two Commissions funded the f2 work referenced previously. The results will be posted at http://wwww.canola.ab.ca by Friday January 6, 2006.

[SASKFARMER]

Corrected well thats very fine but what I am saying they will come out with a study that shows that there is a huge yield difference from the hybrid varieties. That they have lower oil content, higher green count etc.

They will tell the world that what we are using is working and farmers dont try it will destroy your farm. (scare tactics work just look at the federal liberals)Most farmers will go and not try it for fear of failure and the seed companys will have susceeded again.

Truth based on 3000 acres a year for 4 years not a little plot in bug-tussel alberta. Also others in saskatchewan with higher acreages than mine.
Only problem it flowers longer than the hybrids, but your yield is in the bottom big pods and a decision on swathing.

Each farmer try a little test plot of their own and you be the judge.

[Ron]

I got a canola guide last week with results of binvigour 5070 (if I can remember, it already got filed with the christmas junk). It was 57 bu cert vs 50 bu common. approx 20% mortality at spraying. It didnt say if seeding rates were bumped up for binvigour or if seed treatment was used. 7 bu is approx 15%, it doesnt look to bad (how many times do you get 57 bu canola). This was south central AB I think.

[FarmRanger]

The reason that the farmer run canola commissions are running F2 trials is that they want good professional unbiased scientific data showing what results to expect from growing your own farmer saved seed.

The problem with farmer research is that it can be notoriously unprofessional, without proper controls, comparisons, and measurements. Not saying you haven’t looked into how to do proper on-farm research Saskfarmer, but for those who are considering it, make sure you do it right. Someone to ask for proper procedures would be Tom Goddard, Soil Conservation Specialist AAFRD who gave a presentation of New technologies for conducting farm trials at the SACA conference in Lethbridge. He gave out some handouts at the conference that might be helpful.
- Field Experimentation in Agriculture - available from AAFRD
- Another handout outlining 1. how to plan your testing 2. Site Considerations 3. Tools and technologies 4. Data collection and 5. Record keeping This handout also had Len Kryzanowski, Nutrient Management Specialist, AAFRD and Roger Andreiuk, RTL Agronomist, Reduced Tillage Linkages as authors.
- Also said to check out AGSTATS02 for an online and downloadable stats primer package and gave a website - http://pnwsteep.wsu.edu/ Click on the “on farm testing” Link