BinVigor?

[FarmRanger]

That should read "The problem with ON-FARM research is that it can be notoriously unprofessional"

[SASKFARMER]

Un-profesional.
If you cant figure this out by now that I am a Ag grad from the UofM that works full time for Ag canada. and Farm a lot. I mean alot.
Not part time and is on canola commisions etc.
Real facts farmer try half a quarter and 1/2 buy seed. or 2.5 lbs bought and 2.5 lbs bin and see the difference for your self.
Why is is that every one who gets a degree goes away from the farm to work becomes such an expert in every thing but practices none of it day to day.
Simply Farmers try it your self if it works great if it doesnt it was a learing experiment.
But trust me it works.

[FarmRanger]

It depends how you seed the quarter, cutting a line down the middle of the quarter isn’t randomizing your trial. How many here have any piece of land that doesn’t vary from one side of a quarter to the other? Certainly not me. Being an “Ag graduate” you realize that the error goes up significantly when you don’t control for variability across a field. Measuring yield from one side the field and comparing it to the other does provide data. Is it useful for the guy down the road if it hasn’t been properly controlled for variability in the field, and proper controls and measurements haven’t been done and recorded?
Don’t’ get me wrong, I’m not saying that field scale research doesn’t work, I participated in some myself this year. Just make sure you find out how to it right, and record it properly so that others can trust and use it.

[JD4ME]

I have a lot more faith on research done by farmers than by the seed companies if I believed the seed companies are doing an honest job of reporting data how come every seed companies variety is always the "top performer" in their trials. I predict monsanto ins within a year or two of having a widescale revolt on its hands in that more and more farmers are secretly buying a little and planting a little home grown , the same is true of invigor and what many are doing there is blending as well.
What we are going to see from the seed boys is a real push for terminator technology and we as producers must be prepared for this.

[cheapskidoo]

I agree, have you guys seen the PVCT trials that were in the latest Canola Diges they are all over the board. They are showing that some of their checks with 46A65 are over 80 bushels/acre. If this is true some of the Invigors did close to a 100, give me a break! I think field scale trials are better and as long as they are on a half level piece of dirt and there is more than 1 trial. I did a trial with Bayer this past year so I know what went on because I set my drill,I combined it and I know the piece of land it was on. I would believe these books over those crappy little plots at least they are done by farmers.

[SASKFARMER]

Yes farmranger you are correct that no two fields are the same but also plots are plots small measured areas of a field and then multiplied to equate an average yield per acre or like theold commercial use to say welcome to the canola dome.(no wind snow hail drought frost etc. to do field trials)
Farmers watch what has happened in this space and realize who each participant is. some of the so called people with all the stats really work for seed chem and fed agencies. I am a farmer and looking to take back my industry no let it slowly slip away to lies.

[ward.toma]

The preliminary results of the farm saved seed trials conducted by AAFC have been posted at http://www.canola.ab.ca. There are 2 links, the first to a press release which discusses the trials and the second downloads a PDF presentation which provides details.

Ward Toma
General Manager
Alberta Canola Producers Commission

[SASKFARMER]

Very nice report MR Toma I figured it would look exactly (how you wanted it to look) how it would.
1st your report shows and emphasises how your hybrid was treated with helix extra. and then it comments on the bin run with no explanation of its treatment you talk controled report then do one. have hybrids and bin run hybrids treated same fert same maintained the same dont skew the results.
Simply the whole thing about seeding ones own seed is that it is a cost farmers can control and seed companys and organizations want the control of the seed like the USA.
Where the farmer goes in in spring brings home product and seeds with no worry about cost because they are subsidised in Dear old canada we Have a Shit CASIP program that doesnt work .
Farmer frustration is growing and unless some one finally calls it like it is you guys will destroy farming.
Simply do a report that is credible on a large acreage and then we can all sing the same song.

[SASKFARMER]

Also I have now read the full report and have a small problem of it.
Where is pictures of mature plants show seedlings.
where is pictures to Show pods and plant make up. etc.
Finally do a test that is 2.5lbs hybrid bought seed and 2.5 lbs bin run mix and see how small the results of yield will be. Saving per acre out strip cost. Also in last five years were one has had excellent, frost, drought, frost, so so. How come the guys in our area that followed the canola guide to a tee are now having auctions this spring and last spring.
Simply do credible tests like farmers would do dont think like a researcher think like a farmer because his results are what counts.
If we were all getting the yields the companys promissed then the carry over for canola would be 7,000,000 tons. Mother nature still decides your yield not (ideal conditions of test plots) seed companys.

[Kramer]

SASKFARMER if you are the future face of Canadian Agriculture I think it's time young farmers like myself cashed in our chips . I think we are all taking steps to manage costs in the face of high input costs and low commodity prices ,but your logic and significant amount of personal experience seems to continually contradict itself . You provide only short term "solutions" from your 25 years of experience and you continually contradict yourself :
ie. you say the technolgy and seed varieties have not improved in 25 years yet it seems you choose not to grow the old varieties but "borrow" the newest hybrids and their herbicide tolerant traits instead?
Please take some time to add some value for the rest of us by utlizing your 25 years of on farm experience and "education/work experience" to help work towards long term solutions for agriculture , rather than helping us all out with short term survival strategies employed on your farm that no doubt have the potetnial if practiced widely , to deprive Canadian farmers of future improvements in technolgy and varieties in all crops .

[timm]

saskfarmer,are you treating the bin run portion and also could you go say 3-4 lbs on the bin run portion?

[SASKFARMER]

wholy shit kramer where the hell did you come from.
If you are a begining farmer listen and learn. I see hundreds of newbys like you a year that think they are better smarter than most older farmers, And after 3 bad years there done farming, trucking or move to the city to work.
Yes technology is wonderful our tractor has auto steer, sprayer has same both control costs by not overlapping and increasing my costs.
Technology is wonderful but in growing crops etc the technology over took us farmers in Costs that sky rocketed so that farmers lost all control of system and chem fert and seed companys became incharge. There either profit or there gone. now I definietly am not a NDP union man where profit is bad but what has happened is they seen that in the US with there masive subsidies it was easy to help them selves and tried to do the same in canada but we have no help so they have to have same profit as the states and finaly farmers cant cover their cost. Welcome to 2006
Either you will get whats happening in agriculture or you wont and then well see you at your sale.

[SASKFARMER]

Yes we are treating the canola total cost is 1.00 a lb treated cleaned bagged.
1/2 works havent tried more.
look at the Alberta canola stats 57 vs 50 in test plot on most farms over whole fields probably 52 vs 49 but probably really 49 49.

[oldman]

OK everyone. Let's just acknowledge that SASKFARMER knows it all. Give me a break.

For someone who claims to have an unviversity education, you obviously either didn't take any genetics or cut those classes. I also find you stand on Ag Canada research interesting, considering that they are your employer. As a tax payer, I find that level of loyalty disturbing.

As for the F2 question, I would like to refer anyone that is interested to review the work done by Ag Canada at Scott, Lacombe, Melfort and Lethbridge by Stu Brandt and Neil Harker. It can be view on The Alberta Canola Commision's website at www.canola.ab.ca/index.cgi?futmon=Mar06&unit=b

[SASKFARMER]

Old man or who ever you are what is interesting is how the main street in agriculture who for years have lived off the farmers of western canada fight back with statistics that I question etc etc.
I am tired, never once have I said I know it all but to keep feeding lies to western canadian farmers, and for western canadian farmers to keep going broke from this knowledge its time to maybe look out of the box and start questioning all.
Farmers maybe just start asking questions of these experts, Challenge them and then challenge them again.
All I have been saying is that farmers are going bankrupt every year.
Oh yea look at monsantos new commercial 2.99 for a burn off in spring and it works as good as the others.
Well my cost is 3.98 canadian for full generic roundup and at half liter its 1.99 a acre not 2.99 and theres at 2.99 is at a 1/3 liter if one has years of use with it 1/3 liter is not always enough.
But to most its a hell of a deal.
Again look, ask and then make ones own conclusion.