GURT (Genetic Use Restriction Tech) - Terminator gene

[northfarmer]

I see the lobby has cranked it up on this topic again.

If such technolgy could be employed in new seed varieties would it not give us a great tool to manage volunteer crops in subsequent production cycles?

I see the organics are one of the lobbies working on Minister Ambrose. You would think it would be a benefit to them as it would be a useful tool to preclude the unwanted spead of volunteers.

I cannot see how this tech, when developed, would affect the reuse and reseeding of all current varietes of crops grown.

I would think it would further stimulate the development of new and better varieties of many crops.

Farmers could be free to choose whether such techonlgy would be a fit on their own operation.

I had also read that in some cases the seed could be replanted but that certain beneficial traits could only be carried for the first generation.

I would hope that constructive and informed debate could ensue as to the fit of these technologies in modern agriculture.

[SASKFARMER3]

I don't have to spend an extra 100,000.00 to some seed company for seed that hasn't increased our yields out west one once, for what.
If farmers believe that this is good their dreaming in Technicolor for sure.
The seed company's want you under their control.
Talked to a VP with Major Grain company and they make dick squat on canola seed, with cut backs and seed company greed they have nothing left for the middle man yes they make on the chemical but on the seed nothing to speak of. Same with most seed company's but the grain company is held responsible for everything.
WE ARE NOT THE USA OR EUROPE WHERE WE GET HELP FROM OUR GOVERNMENT THIS IS CANADA!

[northfarmer]

so.....you seed common bounty or ebony when you seed canola?.....what kind of wheat........Park and Katepawa?

I do not give a @#$% what the grain company makes off seed sales they do not pay my bills, they buy my grain....

..... all I care about is the cost per unit of production...you cannot count on govt help in this business...if it comes it comes....and I do plenty of lobbying....

...if a new variety or trait like liberty link or rr lower my cost per unit of production after I have tried it on my farm I grow it....i can only assume you have been using the same varieties for a long time if the newer stuff is not any better on your farm...

if farmers do not get value from the technology they will not buy...and if you do not like it stay with your strategy...

the economics of my grain production have never been this poor in my carreer....but there is no question that the average yields on my farm over the last twenty years have improved substantially....same basic fertility program and low distrubance seeding from the start...canola yields have increased more than cereals...

that all being said....i would say it is still time to "drop the gloves" on defending our industry as one thread had aptly put it! I am not moving to to the EU or US, so i choose to stay here and fight it out....

[SASKFARMER3]

No I see Liberty link hybrid gen 1 and

1st gen ac Barrie and1st gen Manley

etc.

we have seed plots with minimal reg seed

The economics of doing it this way work.

The terminator gene will be the end of farming trust me on that.

buying new seed on all acres is a quick trip to the poor house.

and your crops are better than your fathers because of fertility not the seed genetics.

sorry that's the facts.

[northfarmer]

I was talking about twenty years of my crops, not my fathers....and as i said we have been using the same fertility strategy over those twenty years with the exception of increasing sulfur usage on canola..

...sorry those are the facts...

we buy pedigree pulses and cereals for seed plots also every year and in doing so evaluate performance of new varieties and adopt the performers for one generation of commercial production....currently planting large acreas of Superb, Stratus Green Peas, 5700 CPS and Morgan oats..we will again try new varieties this year on plots for comparison......at one time we did the same with canola, but with the advent of transgenic and hybrid canola we changed our strategy to certified based on varietal performance on our fields...

You are currently using the first wave of transgenic canola, and I can only presume you did so becasue you saw value in the product...

I prefer RR canola though also grow liberty and clearfield...and I would see value in paying for technology that did not produce viable volunteer seed and hence the associated cost of that volunteer plant on subsequent production....canola in particular and this may be of much much less value to me with cereals and pulses .....but I have an open mind on other crops as well

so thanks Saskfarmer on your position on this issue, you are entitled to your opinion and you make it clearly.....

but to categorically say that it could spell the end of farming???.

trust you? no thanks I will do my own due diligence


is there anyone else out there with ideas on this stuff? my purpose is too not sell the idea, but to debate the issue...

[SASKFARMER3]

North boy you have to work for a seed company or chemical company because from your writing you don't live in the real world.
Farming is about making money even in tough years and we are seeing right now the toughest of the years every dollar has to be counted.
I evaluate new varieties each year and in most cases their has not been one big significant change in varieties.
Barley same yield as 70s wheat little higher but no big increase, Durum actually little less and poorer color.
Oats same, some new varieties the plants don't even care to take.
Canola yes RR needs a killer gene to protect Monsanto from Brown baggers and to protect the farmer from a new weed that he has to kill in a burn off with higher cost than his neighbors etc. Oh yes Monsanto's is the winner here, flax is in the same department with yield, and with all these new wheat varieties etc, now farmers cant even sell some because of the infighting between the seed company's the elevator company's and CWB.
I know I cant change your mind because you will do what you think works on your farm and great for you but look at what they want and see if your farm is part of their plan. Yes it is to control you till the end.
Have a good day.

[northfarmer]

I am no one's boy.

I like to discuss and debate ideas, intelligently, and without patronizing or insulting those I debate with.

I work for no one but myself.

have a good day.

[SASKFARMER3]

Kind of grouchy for a northerner but hey that's alright I am just saying that having a terminator gene in our grains will do nothing for the farmers and give the seed company's total control.
Go ahead buy their product.

[SASKFARMER3]

Northfarmer, I totally agree with Saskfarmer. Terminator genes will ruin the farming industry, because no competition spells control, control spells the end.

I give you this eg. We have these great new canola varieties right?? Where does it stop?? We have seen canola seed prices jump in the last 5 years 2-3$/lb. If canola seed would jump to $10/lb next year would you still buy it?? You would have to thanks to terminator genes spelling no competition..

[northfarmer]

people who buy the new expensive seed varieties buy them freely.....because they see value in planting them

....I still at times seed polish canola depending on the spring situation, the seed is certified seed $2/lb or less, you can still get certified conventional canola, decent varieties, for the same prices...

I will not argue with the growing concentration of players in the seed breeding business, but I beleive that has to due to the barriers of entry into that market..big money to get varieties registered and commercially successful ..withdrwaral of public/govt breeding efforts, etc....

I would imagine that for farmers that did not see the value they could go back to their $3.00/lb certified op or $5/lb hybrid if they did not want the new tech, just like now you could also go the low cost option, but many do not and all the power to those that can and do so successfully

If there is demand there will be supply....no different than the fact brown bag seed is an option on your own farm, yet many still go for the newest in certified seed....

In agriculture in the last century there have been many advances in technology and many thought that would spell the end of farming as we know it, yet it has not....

China, based on my what I have read has the worlds largest investment in Biotech engineering in food crops, this by several order of magnitude...I would suspect India and other growing global economic powers that lack food self suffiencency are making similar investments...even the EU that bans our GMO canola has many of its own gm crops in the fields and is expanding usage...

...if something like GURT cannot deliver extra value to the farmer by giving us volunteer crop mgmt and accelerate the investment in plant breeding of the crops we grow here in Canada...

...then I would suspect the best option for us would be to lobby for a global moratorium on the technolgy and I may be the first to join in on the lobby...in MHO...