Time to boot zero till?

[furrowtickler]

For the third year in a row frost damage in this area is at least 50% worse on "no-till" feilds. Even one pass with the heavy harrows or anhydrous machine made a huge difference. I absolutely hate to spend the extra money on fuel and extra time/hrs on the tractor but no-till has been costing us money way beyond that - in our area anyway.
We tried out a salford disc machine this spring(salford.com), expensive but an amazing finishing job. Kickin ourselves now for not buying it. Looks like we may have to reseed up to 800 ac b/c of heavy trash and frost damage.

[ado089]

Where our "neighbors" burnt the stuble it came up great but froze way harder than anything with stuble. Also noticed the wheel track froze worse than anywhere there was stuble still standing. Even the buckwheat froze! NOw does a guy leave 1 plant per sqft or reseed in June? NO win if you ask me.

[rook]

I'm not going back but I do need to do a better job on straw management - even canola stubble sometimes gives wheat trouble on the headlands.

Our old tillage stuff is worth nothing so we have it hanging around and use it on occasion (mostly breaking up hay) but certainly won't go back in any significant way. Probably use the harrows a bit more, though.

[Jay-mo]

Possibly consider wider openers, having a black seed row with trash between definetly can make a difference.
On your heavier straw residue, even hitting it twice with the heavy harrows in the fall may pay off in the spring. An extra harrowing is alot faster and cheaper then tilling.

[AG_guy]

One of the smartest guys i've ever talked to about agriculture told me that often harrowing does really no good. It looks like you did alot and the ground looks different but you never really moved the straw. Not to many guys get out and investigate there work. if it looks blacker then hey the job is done, although putting some dirt on a clump of straw really didn't do anything. The best advise i give anyone is start with the straw chopper. I really think Redekop choppers are what should be on every combine but if you don't have one you can place a larger pulley on the chopper to give you more speed, 10% larger is the max and i would talk to a mechanic first before doing it. As well sharpen the rotating and stationary knives every year. Dull knives can leave big trouble, the smaller you can cut the pieces the better off you'll be everytime.

I think zero till is greatly abused. The understanding about why you do it is for erosion control and to build organic matter in the soil. But if we are zero tilling to build organic matter then why are we still using anhydrous and MAP 11-52-0 in the ground, is this defeating the purpose of zero tilling. A healthy soil of 3% Organic matter or more should with easy produce all your P needs and no K should have to be added either. But using NH3 and 11-52-0 creates a sick soil with little life to create these nutrients naturally. If products are throwing the soil out of balance then you will be hooked on the same path for the rest of your farming life fert chem fungicide and incecticide. The best bang for your buck will always be 28-0-0 for many reasons. So as long as you don't get plow pan then i would keep zero tilling but start using it's full potential to your advantage.

[nicolaas]

THere is no free lunch. Last year with the drought I experienced I did not get a rain till early Sept of more than 1/8 inch at a time. Zero till saved my bacon. WIth zero till the soils are getting softer, easier to work, but the stubble leaves a place for bugs and disease to overwinter. If it stays dry this year, that extra 1/2 inch of moisture you saved for each pass you didn't do will save your butt. THe narrower the opener the better I think.

[furrowtickler]

Even the MAV's did not save the low disturbance zero tillers including us in this area.

[AG_guy]

Things get complicated on most farms and it seems like a trial and error process to see what works and what doesn't. To bad farming didn't come with a manual. well no matter rain is what you guys need now, and some heat. I don't know if i could do what you guys do it must get very stressful. And nobody makes it any easier or straight forward for you farmers.

[ColevilleH2S]

AG_guy, can you explain how fertilizing with MAP is detrimental to soil? Is it a poor source? Or do you have other reasons?

My experience has been the exact opposite of yours. When I turn off my dry fertilizer meter (11-51-0/0-0-62 blend)for check stripping, the crop is always shorter, and it matures less evenly than the rest of the field that received the full blend.

[AG_guy]

It took a while for me to find the best explaination so i'll just copy it on here for you to read. There was also a right up in the western producer that mentioned abit about P when i find it i'll post the issue and the page number.

The new modern age of agriculture has created a real problem for Phosphorus in our soil. The abundance of
exchangeable Phosphorus is nearly a thing of the past! Even though most of our soil naturally has a good level
of Phosphorus, 1000 to 4000# per acre, most of it is locked up chemically! PLUS man made phosphates such
as DAP (diammonium phosphate 18-46-0), mono-ammonium phosphate (MAP 11-48-0), plus poor grades of
ammoniated super phosphoric acids can create a "three fold" problem.

1. These products are water soluable and in a unhealthy, unbalanced soil this phosphorus can be locked
up with in hours not usable by the crop.

2. Secondly, these ammonium activated and high acid phosphorus products can suppress and kill soil life.
Therefore, not only does our crops actually use only a small amount of these fertilizers, but these "man-made"
fertilizers are slowly destroying our priceless land.

3. 11-48-0 (MAP) requires three times the CaCo3 to neutralize it as other nitrogen products (DAP
requires 1 '12 times more). They can produce a very acid condition (disease problems are common).

NOTICE In "dead mineral soils" only 2 to 10% of the phosphorus will be available to the plant (normally, only
1 to 4# of P will be exchangeable at anyone time for the plants use). No wonder we have seen Phosphorus
deficiency in our crops so often. This is why in these sick soils 2 to 3 gallons of a top quality liquid fertilizer
solution is better than a ton of dry fertilizer (DAP).


1. PHOSPHORUS is the most important anion (negative charged nutrient).

2. Phosphorus and its balance to N is very important for the health and vigor of any growing plant. Phosphorus
is a basic part of the sugar-protein energy-enzyme family chain. Highest protein and mineral levels are achieved
with a HIGH LEVEL OF P AND IN BALANCE TO NITROGEN!! To keep a proper balance of N to P, your
soil needs a high exchangeable P level, or readily available P1 should be 175# or more; and nitrate N (N03)
should not exceed 80# (minimum 2 to 1 ratio)!! This is why in a young growing plant (corn) that you never want
to supply a large amount of available N at one time. What if you applied 150# N at planting time with 50# N03
in soil and a P level of 100#... We have reversed the N to P ratio.

Low sugar levels are common with more stress of diseases and insects.
Plant energy level is limited and will not stand stress as well (cold, wet, heat, etc.).
Feed value of silage, or grain is down considerably.
Plant roots absorb P in the form of ions of ortho, or dihydrogen phosphate (H2P04). Nearly all P needs to come
thru the bio-energy process of the soil (humus, or "soil life"). Direct foliar P is an excellent way to spoon feed
plants who have a need for additional P.

GROW YOUR PHOSPHORUS - most soil has 1000 to 4000# of P reserve, and a healthy 3 % organic matter
soil can have 400# of available P. Soluable P is built into the millions of microbes, and they are 100%
exchangeable P!! Rain and snow is loaded with phorphorus, so a loose flocculated soil will allow water to
move thru and collect valuable nutrients. Let the earthworm work, because his castings are 7 times higher in P
(it's 100% exchangeable to the plant).



Remember this fact!

Soil life and nutrient balance determines the amount of exchangeable phosphorus in your soil, not the amount of
dry phosphorus fertilizer you apply!!!

[wade]

How long does it take to change the balance from using applied fert. to absorbing natural? You recommending liquid fert. only?

[wade]

2 to 3 gallons of a top quality liquid fertilizer is better than a ton of dry-- is there a different quality between manufacturers or do you mean analysis?

thanks.

[per]

Fascinating topic. Do you test the EC of the soil with whatever you are about to apply?

[ColevilleH2S]

But if you are exporting ~20-30lbs/acre of P out of the fields year after year and not replacing it, wouldn't that eventually lead to poor soil.

I fully understand that only a small fraction of MAP applied is plant available, especially in my high pH, calcareous soil. But unless you are replacing the full amount that is removed, you will eventually run out, large reserves or not.

[per]

Loose flocculated soil will allow the P and N from the atmosphere to enter the soil during rain and snow events. Thus replacing what is used by the plant, completing the cycle? It seems you have to be an oil patch mud man to get the chemistry correct.