Agristability

[skhadenuf]

Frustrated - When you say the guru's express you have good margins, what do they mean? If you are a straight grain farm, you need to have a minimum of $125/per acre or higher to have a high margin. If you are a mixed farm you need to look at it in a different manner.

The problem with the program is many farmers (and accountants who know nothing about farming included) throw numbers at the forms to see if they stick. They don't understand the flows of the production cycle and perform tests on yields and revenue prior to sending the information in. To top it all off, most don't calculate the reference margin and payment calculation so that they can compare to what comes back from the administration. We don't handle income tax this way, why do we allow it for the program purposes?

I know this program because I have done lots of them, including my own. It is a risk management program, not a government handout. If you have no margins its because of a number of reasons, not the program itself. The design is not cover major disasters like BSE, multi year droughts etc. That is where your one off programs are supposed to kick in. Lobby for more support in those areas, not for changes in Agristability because the government won't go there. Lobby for the government to scrap adhering to the WTO so that you can get the biggest cheque you want from whatever program you need to make your farm profitable.

The fact of the matter is, some operators can manage through the disasters differently that others. So long as this happens, you are going to have people that view the program as a good one and others that view it as crap.

If your payments have been clawed back it could be that the information was not correct OR you have not calculated what it should have been. The administration makes many mistakes, there are flaws in the processing.

Just as there are flaws in the processing, there are hugh flaws in the preparers, data collection of the farmer and the historical success of the farm itself.

One thing I have learned is that relying on government support only gets you a small percentage of the loss. The bigger issue is finding a way to solve the profitability of the operation or get out while you may be ahead.

[frustrated1]

Mixed farm. Slow, steady expansion. According to two private consultants, two national, high paid accountants, and AFSC, I'm too stable and consistant. Tell that to my family. I'm apparently very good at handling my own risk. Apparently that's supposed to make me feel good. But while I maintain poverty level my "irratic" neighbours are playing with some very healthy "bonus" cheques. While the program breeds thieves and *****s I seem to insist on being honest in reporting. I've had all kinds of guys explain the "grey areas" to me but I still have to sleep at nite. Wether some of this grey is legal or not there comes a point where moral bankruptcy isn't worth the cost. Either way, the program is not working for me.

[frustrated1]

Frustrated, if you are in Sask, I would like to talk to you or forward you to someone I think can help

[frustrated1]

Alberta, land of milk and honey. While I appreciate the offer to help, I just can't afford any more help. I've literally spent thousands trying to find how I can't have got a dime out of this program in seven years. Have resorted to talkingwriting MLA's etc. Or maybe the program will breed one more thief or *****...........

[skhadenuf]

Every time someone tells the facts about how the CAID program is not working SASK99, you respond that those people are too stupid to manage, cannot fill out the forms, the program is not for this not for that,it's so good etc. etc.
Frustrated has told us what so many are saying, that he has been honest about all his reporting to the Cais program, he has paid for top notch accountants and advisors for years, he has a level margin, yet has recieved nothing or next to it for many years. Some advisors have told him about the "grey areas" you can try to get a payment. Some of his neighbors are recieving payouts.
Your response was that he must be either not filling the forms out properly or too stupid to mangage the program to get money, and then you offerred without knowing a single fact of his margin his farm or anything else about him that you think you can get him money out of the program.
Tell us all how you can make that claim without even knowing any of the facts. All of us stupid people, we know that if we misrepresent our income or expense then yes maybe we can get a payout too.
Is this a good program when because of weather disasters many are living at poverty levels yet pay for all kinds of accountants etc. with no results other than big bills, and someone else with a luck of good weather good crops either has an inside track to who or what, is lieing on their application or what ever else and stealing money out of the program.

Tell us idiots how you can get frustrated money out of the program without knowing any facts about his farm?

[skhadenuf]

sorry CAID should be CAIS, hit wrong key above.

[frustrated1]

Just so you know. No offence taken here on any account. I'm not real stupid, was an "A" student. I've taken accounting courses. I caught the mistakes FBC made, I caught the mistakes the first consultant made. I caught a couple of errors with the second consultant. I've found errors with AFSC. While there have been errors made on each side of the equation (me too), the biggest one of $20,000 (by AFSC) would have been in my favour but still would have not triggered a payment. I'm just pst there are some very nice toys in our community thanks to this program and I don't have any of them because "you manage your risk well". And being honest doesn't help with these programs. Thieves and *****s I say. Seems the ones that have got money around here have got it from all the programs. Grip: by the time the abuse should have caught them, the program changed. FIDP, by time all thier combines were repaired and engines rebuilt, the program changed. CAIS, well, the same guys get monies there too. Coincidence? Methinks there is some "creative accounting" going on. And yes, I AM bitter.

[frustrated1]

Thank you frustrated for your comments, no thanks hadenuf.

First, I never ever claimed you need to cheat or commit fraud to generate a claim. Grey areas are really touching on fraud as well and usually what you do one year will impact future ones negatively. Those were comments coming from hadenuf and others.

Second, I never implied that you were stupid, again those were your comments hadenuf.

Third, hadenuf, like your identity states, maybe its time...

Frustrated, my appoligies if I have made you feel in anyway like the other has stated. I don't think I worded anything to make you feel that way and because your reply was so quick to correct, I think you agree.

Those that cheat and comment fraud not only face criminal charges, but any payments generated will be clawed back. If you know someone that has received funding because of incorrect information then they face clawback of payments in the future as well. On the other hand, unless you are privy to their numbers and their applications have been prepared correctly, combined with related parties in which they should be, there exists the possibility that their margins are higher, their production may have been different and a payment generated.

If you have been fortunate enough to manage within the cards that were dealt to you and did not generate a payment, you may have lost less money. As mentioned in a previous post, the % of government funding will only be portion of the actual loss.

The hard thing to take is when someone you know is getting funding and you are not, as you expressed.

If you know for sure that someone has prepared forms incorrectly - report them - for the betterment of the whole system.

I never claimed I had a snap finger solution like hadenuf explains that was going to fix everything. I offered to talk or forward you to someone that I work with that I felt would be able to help you understand your business better. The fact that FBC was involved scares me as I have helped friends work through fixing their mistakes. Possibly something could have come out of it, no guarantees.

My offer still stands, frustrated but to you and honest working people like you.

Hadenuf, I have nothing to offer you and I am sure your wing nut personality feels you are not missing out on anything either.

[skhadenuf]

Thanks sask99 the more you write the more people see that there is way more to your story than your letting on here. Not sure your even a farmer because most of the bullshit you're trying to spin here sounds like it's coming right out of ag canada's propaganda on this program, there is some reason your trying to sell this bullshit so vigorously. But after frustrated and I stated we could not get money out of this program you and you need maybe to read your own statement, said I'd like to get a hold of you because I think I can help you, so I am pretty sure that means to me and frustrated you know how to get a payout. But when I asked directly tell us how and your in a corner you change your answer. Which proves as frustrated and I as well as thousands of others are saying this program is not working unless some rare certain legitimate circumstances but also you have to cheat. I don't want to cheat, and I shouldn't have to have a better accountant than my neighbor to get a payout. I should be concerned with managing my farm not managing how to scam a program.
Sask 99 you apologize to frustrated in one sentence saying your not implying he's stupid but in the next your saying gee let me connect you to someone so you can understand your farm business better. Well I don't know about others but that sounds to me like your saying he doesn't understand his farm in other words not smart enough to manage the farm or the program. That's completely psychotic, but I give you some credit you're so organized you probably schedule on a sticky note pad when to take a crap just in case the worst occurs good job maybe CAIS will hire you if you don't workt there already.
The reality is this program is a cluster fu## of bullshit numbers used by accountants, government employees politicians to justify their wage and not farmers. It's a complete flop and needs to go.
As far as not offering me help Sask99, bend forward kiss the screen because that's where my ass is.

[bombay_43]

I think there are a lot more of us out here, that feel EXACTLY like hadenuf! If this is the best our governments have to offer, quit! It's costing us farmers nothing but time, frustration, and money!