Agristability

[skhadenuf]

sorry CAID should be CAIS, hit wrong key above.

[frustrated1]

Just so you know. No offence taken here on any account. I'm not real stupid, was an "A" student. I've taken accounting courses. I caught the mistakes FBC made, I caught the mistakes the first consultant made. I caught a couple of errors with the second consultant. I've found errors with AFSC. While there have been errors made on each side of the equation (me too), the biggest one of $20,000 (by AFSC) would have been in my favour but still would have not triggered a payment. I'm just pst there are some very nice toys in our community thanks to this program and I don't have any of them because "you manage your risk well". And being honest doesn't help with these programs. Thieves and *****s I say. Seems the ones that have got money around here have got it from all the programs. Grip: by the time the abuse should have caught them, the program changed. FIDP, by time all thier combines were repaired and engines rebuilt, the program changed. CAIS, well, the same guys get monies there too. Coincidence? Methinks there is some "creative accounting" going on. And yes, I AM bitter.

[frustrated1]

Thank you frustrated for your comments, no thanks hadenuf.

First, I never ever claimed you need to cheat or commit fraud to generate a claim. Grey areas are really touching on fraud as well and usually what you do one year will impact future ones negatively. Those were comments coming from hadenuf and others.

Second, I never implied that you were stupid, again those were your comments hadenuf.

Third, hadenuf, like your identity states, maybe its time...

Frustrated, my appoligies if I have made you feel in anyway like the other has stated. I don't think I worded anything to make you feel that way and because your reply was so quick to correct, I think you agree.

Those that cheat and comment fraud not only face criminal charges, but any payments generated will be clawed back. If you know someone that has received funding because of incorrect information then they face clawback of payments in the future as well. On the other hand, unless you are privy to their numbers and their applications have been prepared correctly, combined with related parties in which they should be, there exists the possibility that their margins are higher, their production may have been different and a payment generated.

If you have been fortunate enough to manage within the cards that were dealt to you and did not generate a payment, you may have lost less money. As mentioned in a previous post, the % of government funding will only be portion of the actual loss.

The hard thing to take is when someone you know is getting funding and you are not, as you expressed.

If you know for sure that someone has prepared forms incorrectly - report them - for the betterment of the whole system.

I never claimed I had a snap finger solution like hadenuf explains that was going to fix everything. I offered to talk or forward you to someone that I work with that I felt would be able to help you understand your business better. The fact that FBC was involved scares me as I have helped friends work through fixing their mistakes. Possibly something could have come out of it, no guarantees.

My offer still stands, frustrated but to you and honest working people like you.

Hadenuf, I have nothing to offer you and I am sure your wing nut personality feels you are not missing out on anything either.

[skhadenuf]

Thanks sask99 the more you write the more people see that there is way more to your story than your letting on here. Not sure your even a farmer because most of the bullshit you're trying to spin here sounds like it's coming right out of ag canada's propaganda on this program, there is some reason your trying to sell this bullshit so vigorously. But after frustrated and I stated we could not get money out of this program you and you need maybe to read your own statement, said I'd like to get a hold of you because I think I can help you, so I am pretty sure that means to me and frustrated you know how to get a payout. But when I asked directly tell us how and your in a corner you change your answer. Which proves as frustrated and I as well as thousands of others are saying this program is not working unless some rare certain legitimate circumstances but also you have to cheat. I don't want to cheat, and I shouldn't have to have a better accountant than my neighbor to get a payout. I should be concerned with managing my farm not managing how to scam a program.
Sask 99 you apologize to frustrated in one sentence saying your not implying he's stupid but in the next your saying gee let me connect you to someone so you can understand your farm business better. Well I don't know about others but that sounds to me like your saying he doesn't understand his farm in other words not smart enough to manage the farm or the program. That's completely psychotic, but I give you some credit you're so organized you probably schedule on a sticky note pad when to take a crap just in case the worst occurs good job maybe CAIS will hire you if you don't workt there already.
The reality is this program is a cluster fu## of bullshit numbers used by accountants, government employees politicians to justify their wage and not farmers. It's a complete flop and needs to go.
As far as not offering me help Sask99, bend forward kiss the screen because that's where my ass is.

[bombay_43]

I think there are a lot more of us out here, that feel EXACTLY like hadenuf! If this is the best our governments have to offer, quit! It's costing us farmers nothing but time, frustration, and money!

[bombay_43]

Wow, the exact answer I would expect from you hadenuf. I was going to reply something else, but I am not going to and I retract my slander expressed to you.

Yes I am a farmer, a partner of a farm of over 10000 acres. We have no livestock therefore we don't experience the same factors you do with a mixed farm.

There is no quick answer because I have no financial information or data about you or frustrated's farm. If someone claims they have a quick solution there lying, there is way more to the equation.

Yes I offered to help and it would most likely be a lengthy process. I never guaranteed a payout from any program.

You love turning comments around and slamming back in someone's face. I never implied anyone was stupid and because you may have managed your farm different that the rest doesn't make you stupid either. - You are the one that is saying that!

Why is it so hard for you to believe that your financial success, the management of your operation has been the best that it can be or that it could have been better or worse than someone else.

A slight ray of light when you said you should be more concerned about managing your farm. That is your number 1 priority and I wouldn't want to change that. For someone to help, you need to accept that the possibility exists that you maybe can improve numerous area's of your business.

If you can't accept that then maybe like Bombay says, quit the program, quit all programs. If you think the government is going to bail you out you may as forget it. Even if they change the program, the replacement will not solve the problems you express. If you cannot make it on your own, something needs to change and maybe getting out is the solution.

I give up, sorry I ever offered or gave my 2 cents.

[burnt]

It seems almost logical that if one needs "inside" information to make a program do that for which it created, it is not really meant to help at all.

frustrated1, your situation is the epitome of what is wrong with these types of stabilization programs - you are too stable!

You might be slowly losing equity every year, as many of us are, but the outcome of spreading your risks camouflages the real and harmful effect of steadily and perennially declining markets.

Same as in our situation.

Too many times, the money goes to the mega outfits who can conveniently move stuff around to their own benefit.

For instance, one operator near here was basically a mega cattle dealer and lost big bucks one year only to receive 2 CAIS payments of over $1,000,000 the next year, one for him and one for his son/partner. Lots of new equipment in his yard now. After crying "broke" the year before.

But his numbers were sound.

Yeah, there's some bitterness about that . . .

[frustrated1]

Motorhomes and boats and escalade's are not the items purchased by dire straights, need the payments, people. Yet that's where the CAIS cheques are going. Hmm... I realize our diversity works against us for these programs, yes, we manage our own risk. And when cattle are involved for the most part you are "stable". One calf per cow, plus or minus a bit. Grain on the other hand can make the large swings required for a payout. You can have 15 bushels of canola one year, 50 bushels the next. Part of my grievance is that I work as hard on my 3000acres of grain as the guy across the fence. We both have the same yields, assume roughly the same margins for CAIS. If there's a payout, he gets his. Mine: wait! you've got a feed stack we'll put an overpriced value on, you've got inventory. We'll put a value on those calves too, more inventory. Oh well, no $$$$ for you. I can't seperate my livestock and grain operations, CAIS will tie them together. So, I'm penalized for diversifying and protecting myself. Govt cheque across the fence and a trip to Arizona. Ticked off old guy feeding cows on this side with old pickup. When working hard to help yourself is penalized this badly, maybe the program needs to change. Yes, I should just quit the cows. Again, one should not have to change the entire operation to make a program work but why should I not be entitled to the same payout on the grain operations the others have recieved?

[bombay_43]

Frustrated, I don't want you to misunderstand what I was trying to say in my post. It is not you that I think should quit. It is all these ridiculous government programs! They are not hitting the farmers who clearly need them.

Outrageous payouts to some, and nothing for others! It seems 95% of the money hits 5% of the farmers, while 5% of the money hits 95% of the farmers! QUIT giving us these programs, so we don't have to compete with subsidized neighbors! At least we would all be on equal footing.
We have grain and cattle also, and no payouts!

[frustrated1]

No misunderstanding bombay, wasn't thinking you were telling me to quit. Been thinking that myself. Just frustrated, CAIS is what triggered my moniker in the first place. Not that it helps the bottom line but it's good to know my frustration with the program is not only mine.

[silverback]

How many smaller, diversified farmers do you know that have ever been invited to attend these policy setup sessions in the first place?

How many smaller, diversified farmers do you know that ever get invited to the chemical and grain company junkets?