Is Ag Stability Dead! Our Accountant thinks it is.

[MBgrower]

If the govt had any brains they would bring back a form of the 5 year income averaging program, and allow farmers to dump surplus funds into a registered savings account in good years. These funds wouldnt be taxable until withdrawn. When you experience a bad year, u can withdrawl funds. Simple program minimal govt costs. This would allow farmers to build up their own insurance program.

[Richard5]

Mbratrud. I did some looking and couldn't find where it said Ag Stab payments would be reduced by the amount you would have collected had you also been in crop insurance. But it did show that crop insurance procedes are classified as eligible income in gross margin calculations but I don't think Ag Stab procedes are. So in effect your reference margin would erode if you could have been receiving crop insurance payments.

DYODD. but a good question mbratrud

Richard5....are you by and can you verify. You seem to be a bit of a guru at this stuff, I don't want to mislead.

If you read in the handbook, its as you posted later on.

If you run into a negative margin with crop insurance as less than 70%, they will have crop insurance calculate what your crop insurance claim would have been had you been in crop insurance and include it in income for Agristability, therefore reducing any claim.

Running into a negative margin could be a bit of a long shot since you would have to grow less that your fert/chem seed etc cost grouping.

I am in AgriStability and remain in it. Someone does prepare it for me and provide a very detailed calculation of what any payment entitlement is (or distance from a payment).

As my accountant always says, those that have had prior payments clawed back, did they know what they were supposed to get in the first place. I have collected 3-4 times in all the different versions of the farm programs. Not once did I have an issue with an over payment and I can dig up my letter stating what I was supposed to get in each of those 3 or 4 payments. I don't recall much of difference between the estimate provided by my accountant and the actual amount received.

I do remember in 2 times, the payment the program came up with was substantially lower because of their oversight. In both those times a response and adjustment was sent in to correct this.

I ended up getting exactly what my accountant said I was to.

I ask those who are complaining about the program - Does your accountant do this or if you send your own stuff in, do you know????

[Richard5]

If the govt had any brains they would bring back a form of the 5 year income averaging program, and allow farmers to dump surplus funds into a registered savings account in good years. These funds wouldnt be taxable until withdrawn. When you experience a bad year, u can withdrawl funds. Simple program minimal govt costs. This would allow farmers to build up their own insurance program.

How many farms do you know could afford to do this??? Most don't have enough cash on a good day otherwise Aginvest accounts would be generally untouched.

Why would the government need to be involved in the first place? Every producer can open a savings account and self fund if they wish.

Maybe those farms that keep flipping the equipment each year or dump the whole line on Ritchie bros auction each year and then buy a whole new fleet could have the multi million slush fund

[farmaholic]

Thanks R5.

I also think mbgrowers points was to create the fund tax free like an rrsp and only be taxed when it was withdrawn. A way to stabalize our own income....the government will get it's pound of flesh sooner or later but maybe wouldn't have to prop up ag so much in the meantime. Sad part is I don't know what the producer uptake on such a program would be or what percentage of producers would be in a position to take advantage of it. Almost like the existing AgInvest program but producer money goes in tax free and comes out tax payable. Now producer's portion of the money goes in tax paid and comes out tax free.

Edit: I got to read a little more before I post. > Sorry mbgrower your point was clearly made and am sure well understood by everyone.

[MBgrower]

Farma, you got it. Like a rrsp, put money away on good years, lower your tax liability, take out in bad years and govt takes their share. Govt involvement would only be in the registration of accounts and reporting on income tax returns.

To go one further the agri invest program could be thrown into this one to help build funds.

[macdon02]

Self directed tax free savings account is a great idea. The problem I see is govt loves to wait for the disaster then throw a pittance at it saying "see we did something, vote for us because we protect you". I'm not old enough to have ever witnessed a govt preventing a crisis. Very hard to buy votes if they are not seen as a savior. Fwiw we need to have a long hard look at putting all our eggs into land. It's a target for taxes and after the last two budgets it might be prudent to look at US equities or some other investment. There's been points in history that people have simply walked away from property due to taxes. It's never different this time, history always repeats.

[wakopa]

Isn't it funny how certain programs are a scam by the same poeple on here, the same poeple can't haul there grain or always have problems with poeple in the work force .

[kato]

....

In order to get a cash advance on cattle you need to be in Agstability. That's why we're in it. Not for any big payouts. I do my own application every year. If you can do your own books you can fill this one in. It's really not that hard. I don't even consider what a potential payout would be. Just send it in and forget about it.

We did get one good cheque right after BSE hit, and it was a lifesaver. Since then, zip. It took years to get a margin built back up. We don't see it as anything more than a disaster assistance. The premiums are cheap enough that they don't cause any hardship, so why not be in it?

[15444]

In order to get a cash advance on cattle you need to be in Agstability. That's why we're in it. Not for any big payouts. I do my own application every year. If you can do your own books you can fill this one in. It's really not that hard. I don't even consider what a potential payout would be. Just send it in and forget about it.

We did get one good cheque right after BSE hit, and it was a lifesaver. Since then, zip. It took years to get a margin built back up. We don't see it as anything more than a disaster assistance. The premiums are cheap enough that they don't cause any hardship, so why not be in it?

Because you're never going to get a payout, so what is the point? Mindless book work? If you have that big of drop in your income to trigger a payment, you obviously screwed up at some major level. And I am doubtful that the program is fully funded to be able to handle a major industry collapse. Bet there is money being flushed into other areas as slush money - just like private pension funds. The forms are far too confusing for what they needed to be. Just need number of head at start of year and at end of year - none of this transferring categories bullshit. Would take me (and many others) many hours to get numbers to jive.

[grassfarmer]

kato I don't think that's any longer the case - if you take price insurance on the cattle you don't need Agristability to get an advance.