younger farmers under 30yrs old

[ALLFARMER]

I fall into this group & these are my observations & opinions, tell me where I am wrong. I feel farming in general, as an industry is at a crossroads. The next generation of successful profitable farmers, a very small group, is not in a sustainable position. For me I can't see a day when the farm won't need strong off farm income support. All input costs are rising to a point where combined with price & weather risk crop production, with its slim margins is to risky an affair.

Its quite something when so many good farmers can't afford to continue to produce products millions of starving require yet can't afford to buy?

Who is going to take over under these conditions?

[rookie]

Your observations are not wrong.

Not to me anyway. I'm 35 and can't convince myself where the viability is in the long run or today for that matter.

I mean it comes down to an old point, an off farm job to keep the farm going...?

Ther is no logic in that at all. It absolutely drives me crazy when I listen to freinds , neighbours or other producers debate and discuss management and money and yet see anoutside income keep things running smoother.

I know there is nothing wrong with there choice , we are all free to do what we want, but I will admit as I get ready to go to "work" , as much of a business person I may think I am, I feel I am breaking one of the biggest rules there is when I start to think I am a good farm manager. I mean I need extra income to build it ? And keep it going for now ?

But as long as I like raising catle and doing whatever it takes to keep the lights on, its a living; right?

[nw9flynn]

Yes times are not great for someone who wants to start out farming. Prices are down, and most grain quality is low, but lets not forget that their was a chance to lock in good prices this spring ex. $5.00 feed peas, and a producer could have hedged canola at over $300.00 tonne, and lets not forget about the CWB fixed price contract for wheat this spring. Yes times are not great but as a young farmer myself I was able to avoid a large disaster by watching the markets and locking in a price that delivered a profit on my farm.

[poorboy]

I think that to survive in any business when you are a small player, you have to think outside the box. A small shoe store has lots of competion from the big box stores and lots of these people go broke. It is perhaps even worse than farming, yet no one notices or seems to care about the small shoe store.

Take all the management courses you can and anything that will help you objectively look at your business. As farmers it is way too easy to spend money on things we really don't need because we use them ourselves. Often we end up with things because we save a couple of minutes or everyone has one, yet in looking at the end of the year it may have not been a wise choice.
Lets face it grain farming is not a full time job unless you have a very large farm or a lot of value added product. Most farmers get paid very poorly for a lot of what they do to fill their time for the year. A good off farm job or an enterprise that adds value to your production is needed.
Even a cattle operation is not a good year round job. With todays equipment able to feed cattle so fast and easy, it makes much more sense for 3 or 4 producers to group their cattle for winter feeding and calving, than for 4 individuals to do it. Pay someone else and get an outside job.
Most of the problem in agriculture is that by the time we take out or cost of living, there is not much left. All on its own the businesses can be profitable, they are just too small to sustain the cost of living.

There is a great future in agriculture, you just have to work at it. Remember, most farmers are getting older and have some equity, they are not looking for ways to increase profit, they are happy with the status quo and will retire shortly.

Make sure that you do not get your self too cash tight. If you borrow money, make sure you borrow enough that you keep your cash levels up, then if you run into trouble or see a deal you can take advantage of it.

Whatever you do, just remember that labor is going to be the biggest crisis in agriculture, plan around it.

[rookie]

Wow , some pretty innovative business ideas to keep the family farm/ business going.

Sorry if that sounds smug.

JUst to add two more cents to the pot;
Up and commers should also have some priorities straight in this new world aswell as nifty ideas like not being mortgaged to the gills, working outside jobs to pay the bills or sharing with thy ( the) neighbour.

Those off farm employment opportunities are fabulous if they pay and you can be home every night.

Being an from where i am from, local work with return and flexibility of hours is a rare thing. And leaving the family to go out to work is okay i suppose ( personally I never enjoyed missing every family function or not seeing kids or the spouse ; but thats just me ) if its within what you and your spouse consider acceptable. And I mean, whats a little gain without some pain...

So where is the gain? And will it be worth it for you?

I am sure we all have our reasons, or else we would not be doing it .

My only point is when we all come up with these great ideas about how to survive the long term, we include other little things to that list aswell...

It definitely makes a complicated equation, each with our own issues.

Just keep the rose coloured glasses off, more of us wear them than we realize sometimes...

[ALLFARMER]

The wife and I have decided to sell. We just can't see where things are going to turn around. I have no regrets for trying. To me it seems a good year gives a person great hope and the average year leaves a person disappointed.

Perhaps next year we will be able to take a family vocation!

[rookie]

Allfarmer... I think it takes more guts to do what you are going to do than most realize.

Good luck to you...

[farmers_son]

Allfarmer: If your decision to sell is still tentative and if you think you might benefit from a outside opinion, I may be able to offer you some assistance. Let me know if you are interested.

[15444]

I agree with the whole 'at a crossroads' concept as well. Many people, some old and some younger, believe that we will see an exodus from the industry within the next 5-10 years, which will be filled by migrating Western and Eastern Europeans. Now, is it just me, or does it seem that everyone believes there is a European (or even American) waiting around the corner to buy their farm? Minus the subsidies and agriculture can't be a big career seller in Europe, or is it? Grassfarmer, I need your input. I would think it is seen as it is in Canada, as a dirty and hard line of work with poor pay.

But seeing as how we are looking at approx. 800,000 people who call themselves 'farmers/ranchers' in this country, what is going to happen to the farms as people call it quits? I think this is the biggest question facing Canadian agriculture in the future. If there isn't someone to step up to the plate right away, the infrastructure crumbles. Many people believe that the mega-corporations will take over. That is believable, but at this point in time in Canada, they don't seem to be in a logistical position to take over the whole industry, through the entire chain. I mean, the corporation can buy the farms, but they are going to need a pile of hands to keep the system running smoothly and efficiently...and definately not every kid in every farm family wants something to do with agriculture. So where do the tens of thousands of farms hands needed come from?

It will be an interesting future.

[dalek]

The most frustrating part to me is going to different farm group/commodity meetings where I'm often the only one under 50 and watching as these people make policy based more on maintaining the short-term value of their own assets, whether it's land, quota, etc, than on long-term viability of farming.
It's sad that in most farm families the older generation goes off to the meetings to set policy, while the younger ones who have to live with the policies stay home and do all the work.

[JD4ME]

If you're interested in farm policy in Canada(Alberta) there was a new listing in the coming events on the 6th of January and there's stuff there on policy for young as well as established producers. As well I saw a discussion topic in the beef area that spoke about it as well. I am well aware personally of the effort that it takes as a younger guy to get involved in this area. All I can say is if you are going to try this game it's going to be a bumpy ride, but looking back at the last 100 years except for a period in the early 70's I believe it's been pretty bumpy all along.

[ALLFARMER]

Thanks Rookie & Farmers_son for your comments. Economics was not all we considered, Quality of Life being another although to a lesser degree.
Thanks

[Cattleman]

Maybe I am very nieve, but I still think there is some opportunities. I am under 30 and bought some more land to expand the family operation. Farmers complain about how little they are paid for products, but how expensive they are in the store, BUT do they do anything about it?? Rarely! I see this as a huge opportunity, look at all the money up for grabs with a bit of marketing initiative!! I sold plenty of direct marketed beef at a price well above my cost of production, and all of my customers were satisfied, and want more! As these large high throughput, high efficiency plants come on board, I think the more they, "improve" efficiency in their minds, the lower goes the focus on quality and consistency. Consumers in general have more disposable income, and are willing to spend it on food, if they know what they are getting.
Pet food market has great opportunity too, lots of cheap protein around and consumers, spend crazy amounts on their pets, more opportunity with not huge costs. Why do farmers run out and drop a quarter million dollars on a piece of land with very low return on investment, when they can invest in other areas to enhance their product that has a much higher return on investment? Something that continues to make me wonder. These are just a few of my thoughts

[Cattleman]

I just wanted to note that I have bought more land just to ensure a large enough base to support production for some value added initiatives.
Also, with the larger operations with all their high efficiency, the bigger they get the more ooportunities that appear, as they overlook markets and leave gaps for smaller players to fill

[nw9flynn]

I agree with cattleman, if you get too large opportunities are missed but if you are too small you are not efficient enough to be profitable. There is alot of positive attitude in this chat and it is nice to hear. I would also like to make to point that the CWB will probably take a serious blow in the next round of WTO talks. Whether you are pro CWB or anti CWB it does not matter. This will create many marketing opportunities for the young ambitious marketer to create a profit while others will be lost without the marketing of the CWB.