farm accounting software

[chambers]

If you are just starting out to switch from manual to accounting software for a mixed farm is it better to start with the basics (quickbooks/quicken) or specialized software like stettler? I have used simply accounting before but not for a farming business. Anyone with preferences and reasons, pls comment? The acc't has suggested quickbooks, but there are all these other ones related to farming/farm management/record keeping which seem more beneficial?

[tdarling]

You've hit on the key question in computerized farm accounting: choosing either a 'generic' small business package or a program designed for farm businesses. Here are a few issues to consider: 1) Price - Generic packages tend to be a bit less expensive (although not always). 2)Flexibility - the generic packages are designed to handle all kinds of small businesses, so they are likely more flexible than dedicated farm programs. On the flip side, the generic packages may need more accounting skill, knowledge and experience in order to produce good financial statements and indicators. 3) Support - Getting good on-line or phone support maybe easier from the 'farm' program providers. Of course, it comes at a cost. One other key issue is whether or not the program supports Canadian tax laws and accounting standards (some programs are designed for Canadian users, some have Canadian versions and some are intended mainly for US users). Settler Ag. Software of Regina provides dedicated Canadian-Designed accounting programs and is a key player in this area. They offer very good phone support as well as training sessions for their software. Intuit Canada Ltd. of Edmonton offers a Canadian version of Quickbooks which is one of the leaders in the generic field. Lethbridge Community College offers hands-on Quickbooks training courses for farmers throughout the province. Other software being used successfully for farm accounting includes Simply Accounting, Mind Your Own Business (MYOB), Bottom Line Accounting and Perception (formerly Farm Management Systems).

[monner]

My feelings on the subject are, in order of priority: 1. Stay with what you know if it does what you want! Simply accounting will do a good job of keeping track of $ but not inventory. 2. go with what you can get the best help with. If there is an associate or neighbour that you can get help from then go with that package. If you can get a course on using a package use that. Telephone or email help from the software company can be good. But some companies will only help with software problems and not how to do difficult entries. My understanding is that Settler has a very good help line and will help with problem entries. 3. If you have never used a computerized accounting package, then go with a cheap package until you find out whether this is what you want. I have helped people with both Quickbooks and Settler and in one case the person went back to a manual system because she could understand what was happening, where she could not feel comfortable with either Quickbooks or settler. My suggestion on going cheap (inexpensive) is based on: if you are going to give up on computerized accounting or if you go cheap to learn what they are like, it is better to loose $50 than $200 +. Going cheap to learn what they are like allows you to decide what you like and don't like about a package. then you can do a better job of selecting a package that suits you. I am using Quickbooks/Quicken because I like it's flexability in reporting. If keeping track of inventory and my individual assets was important I think I would start using Settler because it handles these so much easier.( I would then loose my flexability in reporting though.) There are features I like about both packages that the other does not have. I started with Quickbooks and that is why I am still with it. If I were just starting I am not sure what I would use! (If everything else were equal based on my first two comments.) By the way, it really helps to have an understanding of double entry accounting no matter what package you use!

[cwright]

I have been using simply accounting for our farming operation for 15 years. I also do accounting for a couple of organizations as well as our show supply company and it works very well.

[cdmars]

I agree with most of what others have told you. The decision was much more difficult until Settler lowered their price (list $49. ours $39)on Settler Lite (now called Settler Farm Office Accountant). This is a bare bones package that you can add to according to your needs; manual, phone support,etc. SFOA is designed for Canadian Ag and tax and has the advantage of a clear ungrade path if you so choose in a few years. If you want cash accounting with the GST reporting added then seriously look at this doorway for farm accounting.

[wonder]

We use Simply Accounting because our accountant uses this program. We don't interchange our programming or set ups, but when I have a problem, she is able to help us out.

[rsomer]

The best method of keeping financial records depends upon the reasons you are keeping the records. Everyone keeps records for two reasons, for others such as banks, Revenue Canada and for our internal management purposes such as figuring out what is or is not making money and cash flows etc. I used Simply Accounting for years, starting many years back when the program first came out and it was called Bedford Accounting. I found I was trying to make the software do both jobs, provide us with a financial picture that met both our internal and external accounting needs. I eventually realized I was spending a lot of time inputting our invoices, cheques, etc. into the program and that I was hardly ever getting any value out of it. What I have used for going on to five years now is just a spreadsheet. Or maybe I should say the database functions of a spreadsheet, so a database program would work too, probably better. I can now do all my financial records for an entire year in one morning, it is very, very fast. This provides all the information required to do my income tax so I am meeting the needs of Revenue Canada. I keep my balance sheets on a spreadsheet as well and can provide the banker with anything he/she needs also. It is much quicker than a canned software package, yet still serves the same purpose. The time I used to spend plugging numbers into Simply Accounting I now spend updating a series of what would be called production related databases on things that are important to us on our farm. I have a database for grazing on pasture fields, another for cropping history, costs and yields, another for chemical applications and costs, another for the grain that goes into and out of the bins and why, another for hay and feed and where it came from and where it went, and so on. You can create a spreadsheet or database for anything that you see a need for. These give me information I find useful all the time, not only for our own use but FIDP applications are easier to do as well. I now have a record of all our production and production costs, and I like that. And the income tax and GST gets done too. I don’t regret all the time I spent learning to use and working with Simply Accounting. I learned about double entry book keeping which is good. However on our farm there was no requirement to use double entry accounting. Once I had figured out why I was keeping these records e.g. for the needs of those external to our farm like Revenue Canada and why I was keeping records for myself it made it a lot clearer what I needed and a canned software program like Simply Accounting was taking more of my time than it was worth and did not give me the info I wanted. Your time may be better spent learning how to use a database program or spreadsheet, I know I was happier with the results. Hope this helps.

[rsomer]

Where can I learn how to use a spread or at least learn what a spread sheet can do. My use of a spreadsheet is limited by my uncertainty as to what are suitable tasks for it and how to begin them.

[somsteel]

I have consulted with some field agents for Revenue Canada and they seem to think that Simply Accounting is a very good program. They feel that Simply Accounting keeps accurate records with a general journal section that maintains an accurate audit trail. I think that using Simply Accounting will help a business find favor with the Revenue Canada people, if there ever is a problem. I agree with rsomer in this area. Businesses do not need 'canned' accounting packages. If farmers could run database programs they could maintain excellent records in a portion of the time, and have a system that is much better suited to their needs. The problem with Revenue Canada is that they know that these database programs do not leave a un-alterable audit trail. There is a place in the market for skilled individuals to consult with farmers and set them up with a system like this that will work. However it is my experience that at the present time farmers do not have the money to pay the five thousand dollars that it may cost for a custom built database system. So I would suggest an off the shelf program like Simply Accounting. However, do not waste your time by learning all that the program can do. Keep the records as simple as possible, inputing only items directly relating to income and expense, and Revenue Canada needs. If your operation is large enough for an expanded system, then a database is for you.

[tdarling]

The best way I know to learn to use a spreadsheet is by 'just doing it.' Which ever one of the popular programs you have (Excel, Lotus 123, Quattro or one of the Works programs), take a look at the manual or the help files to get the general idea of what spreadsheets are about. Then, try building your own simple models, and they can be very simple. Try a crop budget where revenues minus expenses equals contribution margin. The whole idea is that once you have your model built, changing one of the input cells also changes the output cells. Another way to learn about spreadsheets is to look at some existing ones. Try this link: http://www.farmsoftware.com/Downloads/downloads.html#five It's FarmSoftware.com, a Canadian site that is a combination of the old FBMI Net and the Canadian National Farm Business Management Council site. As for spreadsheets for accounting purposes, I think that software such as Quickbooks, Settler Gold, MYOB and Simply Accounting are a much better bet for most people.

[wd9]

Another way is to take a course at a post secondary institution, or a school which offers it. They are an excellent way to get to know some of the more complex methods of use, after which you can 'play' till you find it's time to upgrade your education once again. I've been programming/using/fixing/adapting computers of many forms for 15 years and am amazed at how much can be learned by taking an advanced class on topics like excel, powerpoint, etc. You could go from starting to use excel to full scale application development in visual Foxpro or C++. Try going here for example: http://www.lakelandc.ab.ca/programs1/coned/microcomputer.html