Should I hire an accountant?

[PDF]

Just wondering what others experience has been....I am pretty good at accounting and wonder if I should hire someone or not?

[Hopperbin]

What kind of experience have you got?
I changed from MNP to FBC sorta like jumping from the frying pan into the fire plus costs 2 grand extra. I have my books done pretty nicely so if you like maybe you can have a go at mine.

[per]

We do our own including CAIS and GST and have our books reviewed by an accountant once a year. Works for us.

[Intrepid1]

I use Ag Expert for accounting. For Canada it is basically the only one. Although at times it is frustrating it gives good reports and it is easy file file things like GST.. For taxes it is often best to use an Accountant who know the rules and regulations. In running a business one must know where the money comes from and goes to. Shoe box accounting or dumping a box off at a bookeepers just doesn't work.

[dfarms11]

I basically do everything myself except income tax filing. I use an accountant to fill in the incometax forms. Doesn't cost much this way, and basically get alot of good advice. He knows all the ins and outs about what to claim/how to claim stuff. I do my own GST and CAISP. I've done it since it first came out and I know everything about it, more than some of those idiots do that work there!

[Intrepid1]

Well there used to be an expression "a pencil is the most important peice of equipment you own" Now it is sitting in front of the computer. It is management that makes the money and not just keeping the equipment running. Even doing the books is part of knowing where the money is made and lost.

[ado089]

If you can handle the "clerical" aspect of it I would retain a tax lawyer as opposed to an accountant. It's their job to find loop wholes and creative ways to reduce tax.

[ado089]

You can be good at all the things mentioned but having someone review/discuss with you can be the most valuable time and money spent.

Knowing what you want from an accountant is key. If it is only to fill in the "blanks" I would think that is the worst time spent. For some reason, there is the idea that professional services have little value. It really depends on the professional and their support people. A larger firm will have more resources available that you may or may not need but are available very quickly when the time comes. There are a few professionals that are full time farm operators as well which can be an advantage because of hands on experience.

A good accountant will have a conversation with you trying to figure out your direction and future goals. Knowing what your inventories at year end with help tax manage the farm. Direction is key to help plan succession and financial issues of the future.

A discussion about family members involved, structure of the farm enterprise (by the way, anyone who is not in a legal farm partnership and is farming as a proprietor needs help now!)

When the comments are made about completing their own CAIS and AgriStability that scares me. I have had clients do their own that are the most knowledgeable and on top of their business but now use my time to assist in payment and reference margin calculations. You may think you know the program and more than the administration (and the second is mostly true as you are dealing with phone clerks with minimal farm background) but someone who prepares, reviews or consults on hundreds of app's per year may know more or enough that pays a large enough dividend for the time and costs.

Just a few things to think about to those that prepare their own AgStab app's
1) Are you calculating your structure change correctly. Do you strattle an RM in which more acres are in the adjacent RM that may have different benchmarks?
2) When 2004 and 2005 tough years hit, what was your method to value commodities that did not hit the standard list.
3) If you marketed grain at an exceptional value, did you dig in your heals to establish a price that was more beneficial for your claim?
4)In 2002 CFIP especially and in 2006 and beyond, did you complete the CWB receivables adjustment forms. This was a guaranteed $15000 additional pmt in 2002 to as high as an additional $150,000 for large farms.
5) If you increased size in 2007 or 2008 and have good reference margin data, did you use the alternative structure change method based on your farm info instead of the "standard" one the adminstration uses.
6) Does your accountant cross reference yield info provided to crop insurance to make sure yield info on the AgStab forms is consistent. Many of the overpayments your hear about in the paper are because their preparer just "listed the info on the form and sent it in"
7) Does your preparer calculate your eligible payment and is it the same as the final results? Does anyone follow the same procedure with income tax - I think not, why is it the practice with so many preparer's (other than one firm I know)

These are just a few that we apply to all our applications

Farmers beware ...

[ado089]

Hopper, why did you change from MNP to FBC of all choices? In your terms, a frying pan to a correctional facility. The costs are always double of MNP and when you factor fees up front before services are ever started . . . wow what a great way to hook a client into staying

[PDF]

Thanks everyone....I appreciate the help. I will let you know how it works out.

[dfarms11]

saskfarmer99, you seem very passionate about this subject, who do you work for? If you don't want to say anymore on here would you prefer email? One other question is, what exactly did you mean by

"(by the way, anyone who is not in a legal farm partnership and is farming as a proprietor needs help now!)"

[dfarms11]

Yes I would gladly explain my thoughts. If you want to post your email or phone number I will contact you. It is a passion of mine for almost 20 years. I don't claim to be an expert but my travel's have made clients a lot of money

[dfarms11]

dcfarm@telusplanet.net

[may-be]

Sask Farmer99. I also have the same question as dfarms11. Some land i am going to rent for next year is going to be for my son. He has the cash (from inheritance) and i am over powered with equipment. I cannot see why he cannot make a good buck because he will not have expenses in labour, intrest, repairs and machinery payments. He likes haveing his own money but also likes belonging to every activity in school. This way he does not have to work all year long after school for peanuts and can stay more focused on school. I also had another question for my acountant and was left dissappointed getting no advise at all on this very important matter. I would very much appreciate hearing your thoughts.

acdc@xplornet.com

[Hopperbin]

Saskfarmer99 says
Yes I would gladly explain my thoughts. If you want to post your email or phone number I will contact you. It is a passion of mine for almost 20 years. I don't claim to be an expert but my travel's have made clients a lot of money
Saskbuddy I have just got a new statement from FBC that I owe another 75 thousand for corporate tax. Over and above the 80 thousand already paid.
I am just a whole lot dissappointed of the very little personal effort put into this. I openned the mail and had it figured out right away. I pre bought 280 thousand worth of expenses and they did not some how claim it as an expense for 08. Putting me very much into the 44% tax bracket.