castrating ram lambs

[dfarms11]

how late is too late to ring a ram lamb? ours were born late Jan. they are barbados. If it is too late to ring, if and when can I take a knife to them. What are my options. thanks.

[cakadu]

Well, let me say that you raise a breed that is very near and dear to our hearts here. We raise Barbados as well and find them a great breed.

I would say that you are definitely not too late to castrate them using the little rubber ring as the means of castration. The rubber ring cuts off the blood supply shortly after it is put on and once that happens, it is about 2 to 4 weeks later that the sack and all falls off. You do have to make sure that both testes are in the sack prior to putting the rubber ring on. Once the ring is on, the baby runs back to mom and doesn't seem to be overly stressed.

I would use cutting them as a last resort as I don't like them to have any kind of open wound and running the risk of some type of infection, although I suppose at this time of the year, there aren't the problems that there are if you do it in the summer.

When you catch the ram lambs, you may find that they are not as well endowed as some of the other bigger breeds of sheep and we have done ram lambs that are around 2 months of age with the rubber ring and have had it be quite successful. We just did several of them that were born late December early January. If the sack - with both testes - is not big enough, then the ring will take longer. We like to wait until they are a little bigger to ensure that the process is as quick as possible. I would like to say painless, but I have a feeling it isn't ;-). (It has to be a male thing I guess). Basically it is a judgement call and depends on how many you have to do at a time. We like to group them simply as a time manager and we also know that all of them are done.

Your other option is to use a burdizzo, but I have to admit that I don't know how it would work on Barbados (or sheep in general for that matter) because I have never used that method. It crushes the cords and cuts off blood supply that way, but it is my understanding that you have to get pretty good at it in order to be effective.

If you have any further questions about Barbados, please feel free to ask.

Happy lambing!

[jensco]

Is that true of all breeds?

I was talking to a breeder from the UK last week. Basically the gist was not to castrate (other than by cut) after 8 days. Lambs can go into shock which can lead to heart attack. They suggested, flip the lamb over with the legs apart and "dig out" (what a great description - sorry) those little guys. Optimum timing was within the first 4 hours after birth (if they haven't dropped sooner). Seemed harsh to me but then their flock was 3000 ewes.

Anyway, just curious. We have about ten little guys to do born mostly in February. We couldn't "dig" but if we could still ring them, we will be setting aside some time in the very near future.

Thanks!

[cakadu]

I guess it's whatever method you find works best and you can live with. We have yet to ever have a lamb go into shock and as a rule we monitor them after they are done to ensure that there aren't any problems. We've done countless numbers of ram lambs and goat kids over the years and never had a problem. (At one time we had about 225 sheep and 400 goats.) If we did see a lamb in undue distress then we would take the ring off. As I said, after a short time, it is all over as the blood supply is cut off. What we do see is discomfort once the ring is on, which is understandable.

At 4 hours old, I would think that there wouldn't be much hanging out there and you would run the risk of not getting "both". My preference is to do what is the least invasive and least to cause infection. I would think that there could be some stress risk in making a cut, but then have never tried it myself, so couldn't really say one way or the other.

I find it interesting that they would describe the procedure in that manner and that they could do it that way as the U.K. is pretty strict about a lot of the procedures done to animals and many of them cannot be done without a vet doing them.

Again, I think it is whatever you yourself are most comfortable with.

[jensco]

Thanks Cakadu! We have been taking the same approach (least invasive) and don't like cutting animals - too great an infection risk. We have only ringed our animals, so, I really don't want to go to another method or involve vets if not necessary.

I have a low threshhold for animals in distress (my city roots showing here)and cave in too early! At what sign do you attribute undue stress? I usually watch to make sure they eat and know they will hop around and make some noise.

Thanks again!

[jensco]

Oh yeah, well I can't really comment anymore on that other breeder. That was all they said and I'm not sure when the practice took place. They have sinced moved to Canada with hubby, she was talking about what happened on her home farm, so, it could be many years ago.

[cakadu]

Generally what we have seen the little guys do after they've had a ring put on is first off run back to mom and get some comfort from her. Funny how everyone and everything runs back to mom.

What we usually see next is them lay down for a bit and sometimes they will shift around trying to get comfortable (which I suppose is understandable) and then next thing you know they are running around as if nothing happened. Some seem to take it a little more personally than others, but we have yet to get overly concerned about one of them being in distress.

We try to keep our animals as low stress as possible and while this is a glitch in their lives, they seem to be over it relatively quickly.

[dfarms11]

Thanks for your reply.We were told that it was too late by our vet. but he maybe thinks they are a bigger breed which might be too big. I have done this with our calves for about 4 years now, and would not go back. Its just too simple and easy not to mention easier on the animal. Babies are so much easier to handle and they cant hurt you. And I have never lost a calf due to a ring.

We got our barbados 2 falls ago to train our border collie with. I must say they are very ornery sheep with very distinct personalities. But I think they are getting the job done. We might consider getting some more if pasture permits.

Anyways thanks again.

[cakadu]

Your most welcome. Any other questions, all you need to do is ask.

Many people get Barbados for the very reason that you are talking about - they are good to train dogs as they don't tend to bunch up or head for home when the dog comes. I like to think of them as a more independent breed and that they have been left with more of the survival instincts.

Good luck in your endeavours!

[cowman]

I have absolutely no experience with cutting sheep but I've cut a pile of calves in my day. About 5 years ago my son came up with the idea of using ringers. I was not too keen on the idea but have come to wonder why we ever did it any other way! My old Dad was a good man with the knife and thought nothing of cutting yearling bulls or colts up to three years old. So I learned at an early age!
Last year I got really sick and we missed a few calves in the spring. When we vaccinated in June we ringed the half dozen or so calves we'd missed. You had to basically push each testicle through one at a time! They kicked around a bit but it was no big deal....I was all for cutting them but the boss(my son) said No, we'll do it my way! I don't ever really remember telling him he ran the show but I guess thats just how it is now!!!

[jensco]

Darn kids, taking over!