Late Fall Lambing

[Muttley]

I am thinking about lambing in late fall maybe Nov.

I am thinking that there would be a good market for easter lambs, what do you people think? and have any done this before?

[cakadu]

Happy New Year Muttley. As a rule, we generally lamb year round, although with conditions being what they have been, we have put off putting the boys in with the ewes until this month because we're hoping that there is some grass for them to lamb out on. At this stage, it's not looking too promising, but we're hoping....

Easter this coming year is mid-April which is very late. Depending on where you live and how much access you have to markets, it may not be a bad thing to have late fall lambers, although you do have to be prepared for bad weather etc., etc. This fall wouldn't have been a problem and we did lamb some out in November and the lambs are all doing pretty well right now. We just had one lamb on Thursday with quads and all are doing fine.

I guess it all comes down to whether or not you can "pencil out" having the lambs in the fall. Are you going to be able to get enough of a premium to warrant the potentially extra work that you may have.

Some years it actually works out not too bad because our Easter and the orthordox (Greek) easter fall within a week of each other and the potential market is greater. You'll have to get calendars for a few years in advance so that you know when to plan your breeding programs in order to have the lambs be ready at the right time.

I guess the long and short of it is that it can work out, but it takes planning and knowing what it will cost you and what sort of return you'll have to get to make it worth your while.

[Muttley]

Thanks for the advice!!!

I figure late fall can be no worse than winter here in Sk. I have a 90' insulated calving barn so weather is no problem for me. We only lamb out a few for the children so all the sheep can stay in the barn before and after lambing if the weather is bad.

I also hope by lambing in fall and having the lambs in corrals for the winter that we can cut down on lambs lost to coyote's. They don't seem to bother the ewe's but as soon as we lamb in spring there they are. This way all summer when ewe's are on pasture I will have no lamb's.

[cakadu]

What do you use for predator control? We have used a livestock guardian dog - breeds such as Akbash, Great Pyrenees, Maremma, Kommondor, Anatolian Shephard among others - with great success and we are currently using a llama also with great success. The llama pretty much stays around the ewes when they are lambing and goes out with them when they graze in the summer.

Some of our ewes - we raise Barbados Black Belly Hair sheep - are really quite aggressive mothers as our dogs can attest to. They have actually rammed the dogs when they have gotten too close to their lambs.

If it is a real problem for you, then keeping them locked up like that will probably be a good idea and the lambs will be safe. You certainly don't want to loose what profit you will get to the coyotes.

If you want more information on these dogs, please let me know. They work very well and are quite effective.

[Smithy]

cakadu
I need something for predator control, which is why I currently have no sheep, but I have had terrible luck with my last two dogs. One chased chickens nonstop and the next one killed ducks. Can you recommend a good dog for coyote control that will be a good risk for leaving poultry alone? I know this is possible as I owned a wonderful golden lab for 16 years. He was very effective at coyote and fox chasing, no problem with the cow/calf end of things [although useless as a cowdog] and was completely trustworthy with the birds.
Something not too large and with a little cow sense would be a bonus. I have done without a dog since last summer as I am really worried about winding up with another 'disaster dog.'

[cakadu]

Smithy, sorry to hear about your dog woes. The best thing that works with sheep is one of the livestock guardian breeds that I mentioned earlier and it has to be one that is bonded to sheep and/or some other animal.

Our Maremma was bonded primarily to the sheep and goats andt he was quite bonded to us as well, although he wouldn't just let people wander around the place - he had to be told by one of us that it was okay for the people to be out amongst his sheep. Bonding usually takes place with the puppies being reared with the sheep, goats or whatever it is you want them to guard. They were bred to primarily guard sheep. They are different than most breeds of dogs in that they won't get drawn out by coyotes and such and will stay with the flock rather than leaving them.

We decided to have him get used to people as we had folks coming to buy breeding stock etc., so the dog had to tolerate people. Many livestock guardians spend the majority of their time with the flock, however. It may even appear that the dog isn't doing a thing, but I can assure you that the dog can go from a sound sleep to instant attention and alertness in no time flat.

He never really ever bothered the birds at all and had only a brief bit of trouble when we first got guinea fowl. The guineas would make a lot of noise and of course he thought something was going on every time they made a racket. He eventually got used to it and didn't get too excited if they made noise. In fact, we used to go out into the yard and see him with a bird or two on him once in a while.

If you want to know more about them, feel free to ask. They are great dogs.

[Smithy]

cakadu, thank you for the info on Maremmas.

I looked on the web to find out a bit more about how these dogs looked and acted. I also needed to know how they were with children, as I didn't want to ensure the safety of my livestock at the expense of my grandchildren. It seems they would be excellent in that department.

These dogs sound wonderful. Is there anyone breeding them in Canada? The nearest ones I found were in Pennsylvania.

[cakadu]

Well, so much for not lambing in the winter months - Jan and Feb - 60 plus lambs so far. Those escapees from the ram pen were a little busier than we thought they were. Probably 50 of those little lambs have come in the past 10 days.

Apparently we're going to have to be a little more clear on no winter lambing as it was our plan to NOT do it this year. Oh well, best laid plans.

Try the Maremma Sheepdog Club of America - they give away free information and breeder directories, so hopefully you can find someone a little closer to home to get a pup from. Their address is:

2862 S. Peterson Road, Poplar, WI 54864 Ph. (715) 364-2646

Good luck in finding a dog! They are a terrific breed.

[Muttley]

We have a Border collie/kommodor dog. I got him as a puppy and it bonded first with the family then the livestock. It was not my plan to have a dog for livestock protection but this dog has done wonders for us.

I use to see coyotes and foxes in the corrals and yard throughout the winter. Since this dog has been with us we have not had that problem. The dog also barks whenever anybody drives in.

The only problem I have had is with the bonding with the family. The dog has shown signs that if you are a stranger and make a sudden grab or even a loud voice to any of us the dog will let you know that it is there and that you had better stay on your toes. She has never made any motions towards children.
She does however HATE the Saskpower meter reader, and I figure that's a pretty good trate in itself.

[flint]

Have you tried looking in the "western Producer" or "Manitoba Co-operator". They usually have predator control dogs for sale in the sheep for sale column or pets column. They can be quit pricey though!

[Muttley]

Try the BUY & SELL right here on Agri-ville. I have found success with it on other items maybe you will to!!!

[Smithy]

cakadu; thanks for the MSCA tip. I found dogs in Washington and Oregon as well as lots of very good information.

flint and Muttley; the classified leads were great. I found two breeders in Alberta and one here in BC about 3 hours from home. Thank you.

[Smithy]

Hi All......

Just opened the newest issue of the Shepherd's Journal and there are several ads in the back of it for all kinds of guard dogs. Mostly Maremma pups, but also some great Pyrenees. There is also one for a litter of 3/4 Akbash, and 1/4 Collie. Just shows you that even a good quard dog can have a little fun now an again <GRIN>

The SJ can be found at http://www.shepherdsjournal.com I really recommend this magazine to anyone interested in sheep. The paper is also under new management and their first issue looks pretty good!

Regards from Manitoba

[Smithy]

I have my maremmas!!!!
Thanks everyone for your help and thank you cakadu for the idea. These are the cutest little slobbery furballs I have ever seen. If they turn out half as good as all the maremma owners I have talked to say they are, they should be great dogs.

[cakadu]

Congratulations Smithy. I hope that all goes well for you with your new little charges. They are terrific dogs.

When you see the full potential of what they can do, you'll be quite pleased and amazed with what they do by instinct. They know their job and they do it well.

Keep me posted on how they are doing.