Agr. Sprays

[gafoster]

I am having a major problem with prosso millet in my sweet corn, haven't been able to find a chemical that will control this weed, other than Liberty Link sw corn, any experiences, any suggestions? As well am having a major challenge with broadleaf weeds in my pumpkin crop again, any suggestions?

[rodbradshaw]

Kernel
Have you read Dennis Avery's book Saving the Planet with Pesticides and Plastic? I still have a chapter to go but he sure puts an unflattering light on organic production practices.
I had the opportunity to meet an Australian Organic producer a couple of years ago when he was visiting in Western Canada. This fellow was basically a "slash and burn" farmer so when the fertility went down he just moved on and ****d and pilaged some more virgin soil.
Organics in England are being pushed by the major supermarkets but at the same time they are forcing the producer to take less of a margin. This just leads to the lowest common denominator. As they say in Israel, an organic producer is one who only sprays at night.
I agree that GMO's are the most tested food and or industrial crops that we have and depending on your definition of GMO every thing that farmers produce today has been genetically modified in some way. As the bumper sticker says "Don't complain about farmers with your mouth full".
Rod

[countryguy]

Kernel,I'd like to know where you get your facts from.When done properly organic farming puts back far more to the soil than it ever takes out.(the use of forage and pasture rotation)Don't get me wrong,I'm not some naturalist freak,just a conventional grain farmer that is beginning to question some of the practices that I am myself using.And by the way who are we to #%@! with mother nature?I don't care how much testing is being done on this gmo stuff now.The fact of the matter is we may not know how safe this stuff actually is for many years into the future.Even if the stuff did end up to be unsafe the big corps would never let the truth be known,they are simply just making too much money on it.Get your head out of the sand kernel,these companies are not creating and pushing this technology for YOUR benefit....

[vzvalo]

Weed control in vegetable crops can be a challenging experience. Not knowing what part of Canada you are from I can only recommend that you follow Pesticide Guide and read product label before using any pesticide.

[countryguy]

Countryguy: I may have my head in the sand but it's not running in one ear and out the other if you get my drift.

You know it a funny thing but the human race don't believe that they are a part of mother nature. Just because we have a big brain doesn't mean we are removed from mother nature. We are no different than anyother living thing in nature, our problems are just more complex but mother nature is ruling us as well as everything else on earth. The best we can do is clean up the mess we leave behind us and test everything we do into the future. Mother nature may still reject us organic or not.

We are living longer now than we did when we ate mostly organic food. Our children are bigger and healther than we are. I don't blame conventional farming methods for the health problems we have now days so much as I blame modern drugs. Mind you drugs save our lives every day and thats what I think contributes to our long life span. But the side effects is what can contribute to what kills us not what we eat every day.

I think the argument on organic or conventional farming has to do with whether you are willing to pay someone to make your buisness profitable or not.

I think big corp. and companies are no different than you or me they got to make a profit. If their technology is economically beneficial to my farm and reasonable to the enviroment, I will maybe use it.

As far as, long term testing of a new product goes, you might say conventional canola has only been hear about 25 years it might kills us yet. Or how about conventional wheat it has been around for thousands of years and the best we are doing with it is about 100 years of age. How long do we want to live anyway.

I done know why I entertain myself this way. The Kernel.

[DanMoore]

GMOs are being thrust upon us. If they were so beneficial to all then they would not have all the protections of patents and copyrights. The first efforts of GMO was to gain 'termination' so that the grower had to return to the supplier for seed. Where is the profit to the grower when the prices are hiked by a monopolistic approach.

Know we have the pest controls within the plant. More contribution to the evolution of stronger pests. Add the tolerances to herbicides and increase the application of chemicals.

The bioresearch advertisement that I am seeing use the words 'may,' and 'might." There is no promise in science. There is only hope that there is potential. They have experimented for years. What weird and wonderful creations have they seen. Where are these today; hopefully not in nature's environment. There current experiments are filling millions of acre now. Natural drift has polluted natural varieties and there is no stopping it.

You will soon be unable to find non-GMO seed. The multinational have set the hook and are realing you in.

I shudder at the thought that food is the only contribution to longer life. You seem to be blind to sanitation, medical, and hygiene advances that have more impact on health. One only has to view the effects of Wakerton and others to see how quickly we react.

Sadly we have gone to far. There is no appeal at this point. We have the GMOs and only the future will give the measure of our folly.

[cakadu]

The more I study and learn, the more I am convinced that this is not a matter of organic/natural vs. conventional vs. genetically engineered crops, but rather a matter of what is best for the land in the long run. You need to take a look at each locale and determine what it can or cannot support and the long term, cumulative effects of what we determine is right today, based on the information that we have.

I am not for or against genetic engineering and neither am I against organic. What I am interested in is scientific, logical information on whatever system that you want to use being made available so that people can decide for themselves what they will or will not accept. Too much of this debate stems from emotions and not fact

I have not seen proof that organic production does not do harm to the land, just as I have not seen that genetically engineered plants do harm. When I hear about the poster child for GMO's the monarch butterly, I question how much damage is done from spraying Bt directly on to the plants and the residues remaining on milk weed. Yet to my knowledge, nobody - not even from the organic community - has done anything in the way of a study to prove that it is any safer. How do we know that organic does not do harm to the land in some way?

The fact that the natural remedy market does in the hundreds of millions of dollars per year in business still makes me scratch my head. There isn't a shred of proof that these things work and in recent months, we have heard more and more about the damage they can and may cause. Yet, people still keep taking these supplements with no proof that they actually do work.

For what it's worth, in my opinion, we need to look at things that are applicable to all systems, like ensuring that food is produced safely, free of toxins, e-coli, salmonella etc. That is what is more important, isn't it?

[Muttley]

To many times I have seen a product come along that was the greatest breahthru we have ever developed only to see it off the market in a few years or to find out we have seeding restrictions that were discovered after awile.
The GMO thing scares me a little, I am hearing problems such as volunteer growth that is hard to control, and that some countries are reluctant to but grains that may contain it. Are these founded in anyway or is this just farmer gossip?

[DanMoore]

The EU has protective restrictions on GMO imports. And it is well founded. We have seen crosses to non-GMO crops. There are law suites brought by the patent holding corporations against the defenceless grower, The gene was found in their crop so it must have been unauthorized seed saving.

It is difficult enough to save seed without having to worry about genetic pollution. And as you state, we do not know the longrange implications of the consumption of the GMO crops.

And now the government has OK'ed another GMO potato.

[DanMoore]

Danmoore: for your information Europe is the largest reseacher of GMOs in the World. Their restrictions on GMOs is another form of tarifs on trade in agricultural products.

All of our food is safe but thats no excuse for stopping progress to feed the hungery. But then again maybe the world is flat, and Danno, you and me had better not go to investigate for we will fall off the edge. Never to return to this website again.

[cakadu]

One thing I have never been able to figure out is why it is okay for corn growers to have to go and buy their seed every year - it is a hybrid and therefore sterile, if my limited knowledge is correct - but when the terminator technology came along, everyone was against it. It would have taken care of this concern about volunteer crops where we don't want any, wouldn't it?

Muttley, I agree with you that we have to approach this with caution and not take everything at face value. They have also taken products off the market (for no apparent reason or at least none was given) that seemed to work very well. The precautionary principle is built into everything that is done in the name of genetic engineering, so there are mechanisms in place to avoid a free-for- all.

This is a hard debate which I'm sure will continue for some time, and there are many opinions - being the eternal optimist, I'm sure we will find some middle ground somewhere.

[DanMoore]

How is terminator seed supposed to help the poor farmer or those in the third world. The age old practice is saving seed for the next year. And what about choices? Every year there are new varieties and those of past are discontinued. The planting of any new hybrid variety can only be a trial; to see if it will grow to desire. If every year there is a new variety you are faced with a trial, how can the farmer plan? We must maintain a continuity in seed stock. The farmer must be able to forecast what he will have versus waiting to see what he gets. That is the reason I have switched to non-hybrid seed. I know what I will get and am able to save seed for the next year. Let the hybrid and GMO merry-go-round stop so we may see the future.

[rodbradshaw]

Dan
Farmers have the ability to choose just as you have done. If you don't like some aspect of the variety whether it be price, GMO, hybrid or whatever no one is forcing you to use it other than our need to try something new. If farmers or gardeners like a practicular variety of seed, the market will continue to produce it for sale. Lets get off this paranoia or the the aliens will get you.

[cowman]

And Dan make no mistake about it...the big seed companies are in business to make a profit and the only way they can do this is to sell their seeds. There has to be a demand for their product. And if farmers were not making their own profit they would not demand these GMOs. Take a look at round-up ready canola...it is now the dominant variety. Why? Because it works! It makes the most money! We have to go with the "best" science of the day. If not there would never have been any progress made down through the ages. We have to have some faith in our government agencies...if they say it is safe we must assume it is. There isn't really any other option.

[DanMoore]

OK! Everyone is making a profit. I expect that there will be a reduction in subsidies and less of a draw on the public purse at the end of the growing season.

Here is another bullet to chaw on.

Prior to scientific intervention, every species was genetically isolated. Some wise test tube wizard desided to jump the genetic boundary. After many attemps they gained the desired effect as determined by visual or actual effect. The plant looked better, shipped better, or withstood a pest or chemical. But what other unknown affects have gone unnoticed?

In the still juvenile science, they blast a gene with hope of insertion. They are attempting to change the genetic formulae to gain a desired result. What new chemical or cell is also created in this gene processor. Is there a new acid, protein, or organism created? Is it detectible with conventional testing? And if a new creation, what is it affect(s) on/within the food chain?

Is there any guarantee? And more importantly, if there is a control existing or means of stopping what has been started?

If you think there is any stopping now, then you better drop into the spiritual vignettes to offer a few words.