Bourgault 5710 drill, what options should I get?

[poorboy]

I am thinking of buying a Bourgault 5710 air drill before their early buyers bonus expires, but I am having trouble deciding what to get. I currently have a 8810 on 10 inch spacing and independent mounted packers with mid row coulters putting on NH3. I am not very happy with the packing pressure on this machine.

I am torn between 10 inch spacing and 12.6 inch spacing. I am thinking that the mid row coulters will pull easier, but the long term maintance costs will be way less with mid row shanks. I have lots of clay soil and am leaning towards 3 inch rubber packers, yet some people tell me to get 3.5 inch steel packers, as they pack better and the ground is not a sticky with no till as it once was when we has cultivated summerfallow, so a steel packer should work well.

I am leaning towards a 42 or 46 foot air drill on 12.6 inch spacing with mid row coulters for NH3 and 3 inch rubber packers, and plan to use Bourgaults 3 inch wide knife as an operner.

Are there any drawbacks to the system other than it is rough?

Any good reasons for why to pick one combination of air drill set up over another?

Thanks for any opinions!

[countryguy]

Poorboy,may I ask what you are using for openers on your current machine?We use the same setup on 8 inch spacing and are very pleased.We seed everything from sand to clay and always have enough packing pressure.

On your new unit I would definitely go with the 10 inch spacing.Reaserch has proven that the closer your row spacing is the greater the yield probability.The packers are a toss up.Most guys I know go with rubber.I don't know if you would be pleased with a 3 inch opener.

[poorboy]

We have tried both the 3/4 inch bourgault knife and the newer 3 inch bourgault knife on our 8810.

We often seem to get situations where there is enough moisture to start the seeds to germinate, and then the soil over the seed drys out before the roots emerge and the roots are sitting in dry ground and the seed dies.

To try and overcome it we are seeding with about 2 inches of dirt over the seed and the fields are rougher and emergence is slower. In watching my neighbors seeding the same day on the other side of the fence, they seem to have a lot moister pack over the seed.

Perhaps I am doing something wrong with my 8810, in which case I would sure like to know so I can save my money and keep using what I have.

[countryguy]

Poorboy,could seeding speed be a problem?We usually seed at 4.5 to 4.8 mph with 5 mph be max to finish a field before a rain or something like that.We used to seed faster and did have some troubles.We also run the pressure springs on max at all times.Hope you can figure something out.Them fancy airdrills are alot of money and the crop prices are heading the wrong way!

[rosco]

With those add-on packers on the back you will never get the packing of an air-drill. I have neighbours who had so much down pressure on the springs that they were lifing the rear of the cultivator out of the ground, with the obvious rersults. There is always a huge debate in our coffee shop about double-shoot boots vs. the mid-row banding system. Ripping apart the seed bed vs. fertilizing the weeds. Another farmer nearby is using a midrow bander with carbide tipped knives on 10" spacing with steel packers. He has had two years of excellent emergence. He seeds slow, shallow and gets great packing. My only reservation is that he is using a very small amount of the seed bed for a lot of seed. If you have good soil and good fertilizer levels maybe that isn't such a big concern. There is only one air drill (a JD) in our area with rubber packers and one problem is that the machine slides sideways quite easily on sidehills because the flat face doesn't grip the furrows. Also the flat face isn't a great match for their stealth boots because they leave a "V" trench that the packer doesn't fit well into.
Food for thought.

[countryguy]

Rosco,you do have to adjust your front to back leveling when using the packers.You cannot go from cultivating to seeding with the packers and expect it to perform the 2 different operations with the same setting.

[poorboy]

The sliding sideways issue on the hill from flat versus V packers is an interesting bit of info that I never considered. I noticed that some drills were worse that others, but never thought about the packers.

Country - what type of add on packers do you have, the Bourgault gang or independant?

[countryguy]

Just using the gang type Rosco.You boys out west must be farming some pretty hilly country to have to worry about your drill sliding sideways on the hills!

[rosco]

country guy. good point about leveling the machine when you go from harrows to the packers. I don't run a bourgault but I have neighbours that use the mount packers on airseeders and I'll pass that on.
poorboy. Another part of the problem on sidehills is that in addition to the seed rows coming together and having poor packing is that the back of the macine is lifted out of the ground when the packer isn't down in that furrow, but up on the ridge. Can be a concern when seeding canola shallow. More coffee shop wisdom is that pulling a huge cart, or an anhydrous wagon behind the cart, or even a long cart hitch which gives leverage, can lead to the airdrill sliding sideways on hillsides.

[countryguy]

Oops,sorry Poorboy,my last post was supposed to be to you but I got the names mixed up.

[poorboy]

Rosco,

I have lots of hills, so skewing is a concern. Do you know if the mid row coulters from Bourgault, or the optional coulters for sidehill from John Deere help at all?

Countryguy,

What openers are you using on your 8810. I am using the knives which stick down further than the spoons, so the plow does not come down as far to put weight onto the packers.

[countryguy]

Poorboy,we are using the Bourgault liquid sidebanding knives.From what you say I think you may have to lower your whole machine using the leveling adjustments.This would get more pressure on the packers.When I go down the road in transport I have to manually lift the main frame packers using the pressure adjustment so that they don't roll down the road.I guess what I am trying to say is that when the machine is not in the ground the packers wheels should not be very far off the ground,just high enough so that you have no trouble turning on the headlands.I hope this is all making sense.

[poorboy]

Countryguy,

When I get a couple of hot windy days the pack over my seed will dry down to the seed if I only have 1 to 1.5 inches of dirt over the seed. If I put 2 or 3 inches of dirt over the seed I can hold the moisture longer, but it really slows down the emergence, and can only be done with cereals and peas.

Most of the drills that are around me seem to be able to put a pack on about of 1 inch of dirt, which does not seem to dry out in a hot windy period.

When seeding with 1 inch of dirt over the seed I get lots of seeds that pick up enough moisture right away to start germination, but by the time the root comes out the seedrow is starting to become dry and they just die from no moist soil to root into.

Do you get enough packing that at 1 inch depth you will keep the moisture retained in your seedrow over long dry periods?

Thanks for the help

[rosco]

poorboy
I do not know if coulters would help on side hills very much. If you seed in a narrow band and the machine slides even a little bit, the narrow packer misses the band, but if you seed in a wide band, the wider packer might still pack some of the band in a sideslip situation. You say that your seed cover always dries out on you leaving your seed laying in the dust. One solution may be making sure that your seed is on a firm bed, not in loose soil. I've noticed for years this difference between conventional and no-till. In conventional seeding, the moisture seems to keep coming up each night to keep the seed in moist soil, and harrowing is another trick to bring up moisture to your seed. In no-till, you can't harrow after and I feel that the moisture doesn't behave the same, for whatever reason. I've seeded peas shallow, had a hot wind take the moisture out and leave the peas in the dust, and the moisture just doesn't seem to come back up enough to germinate them. I think that the trick is finding a boot that will always lay your seed on firm ground and then a packer that will even push the seed into that firm ground a bit. I have seen seed placed shallow on firm soil come up where seed laid deeper in loose soil didn't. Ground speed, fan speed and soil condition also play a part. I'll go look at my nieghbours midrow seeding on a hilly section that he has, see what it did, and report back.

[countryguy]

Poorboy,I don't know what to tell you.We never have a problem at any depth.Even at times when it does seem like there may be enough packing like Rosco said the moisture will come up and everything seems to firm up a while later.We have been mostly conventional tilling but in the last few years have been playing with some no-till.Everything turns out good.Maybe your problems are just a case of different soil conditions where you need that heavy wide pack.Did you order your drill yet?