So 20 Bushel Pea Crop VS Not Seeding!

[SASKFARMER3]

OK lets do the math. Peas are worth roughly 5 a bushel. So $100.00 an acre Vs $80.00 for not seeding.
Hm Sask Crop will top up the 20 by one bushel at 4.50 if 10 year average is 30. So $104.50 an acre. Minus Crop insurance Seed inoculant disease control spray ext ext. Had to do a fall burn off so same as not seeding.
The math is starting to look like 2010 one should have just said Fruck it and not spent a dime on this crop.

[dave4441]

How do you get out of bed in the morning?

[dave4441]

Well, one good thing is that your farm won't have to trade off its line of shiny equipment for shinyer equipment to get out of paying income tax again this year.

You get one chance per year in this game. If you try and do everything you can, it works out some years and others not. If we could live our lives with knowing the outcome of every decision, it wouldn't be that challenging, would it

[SASKFARMER3]

Boys its an example since that's the number that's coming up over and over again. Ag-n their are a few high yields but few. So let's discuss this example not my income tax problem.

[SASKFARMER3]

Yes, my first comment was a bit of a dig but focus on the second paragraph.

As stewards of the land, we try our best, no matter what. That is what many producers are successful. If you are a producer that is constantly trying to figure out which way you do the least to get the most, at the end you lose, not matter what (I know this is not you and your mentality)

If peas go to $7 then what? By seeding your acres you could, it could have turned out better and some will have. The $80 is not a fair comparison since many never received that amount depending on the deductibles.

If you have done okay the last number of years, your Agristability will still kick in dollars keeping you around.

[bucket]

Agristabilty can't kick in until your next tax return is filed.

If a person was forward thinking last year, (and not expecting a complete washout of 20 inches of rain), and deferred income into 2010 agristability won't kick in until after tax 2012 after the impending 2011 income wreck.

Or does the fact there was no production for 2010 help start a agristabilty payment?

That might be a little late for some.

[bucket]

Bucket, that is not totally correct. Like many of my producer friends, you are getting mixed up with cash income verses production income or "accrual"

You are right in that Agristability will not kick in until after the 2010 tax return is filed and later in the summer when the actual application is prepared, payment calculated and submitted for processing.

Deferring income from past years into 2010 does not affect your 2010 payment one bit. Deferring income to 2011 or beyond may affect it some but only to the extent that the price you sold it for in 2010 exceeded the Dec 31/09 price (or whatever year end you have if a company). For example, canola was about $8.60 Dec 31,2009, if you sold it for $10.00 recently, the gain in the increase in value ($1.40) is part of your 2010 income.

The program looks only at the production income and production costs of the 2010 crop. The rest of the things you do for tax planning are supposed to be adjusted out but not always perfect.

If you have no production income for 2010 then your income for Agristability will be:
a) Gains from good marketing in 2010
b) Any crop insurance or federal too wet money
c) any crop harvested and sold/on hand at your year end

less:

a) Chemical, fuel to maintain the land and a few other select costs
b) Actual fertilizer used if you did seed any acres (anything purchased in 2010 or left from prior years is a prepaid and adjusted out)

This is compared to your prior years.

One person on here calls me a geek but sorry, 20 years as an ag lender with a bank makes me think this way. I work closely with my accountant and next year this time when he and I are sitting down preparing my application, I will know exactly what I am to receive from the program.

Too many other accountants and producers simply send in numbers with their tax return and make no attempt to calculate the payment or distance from a payment. This is done the same every year regardless if it was a bumper year or not.

Knowing my own experience with the poor processing of the applications by the administration, many who have not filed their applications properly in the past will have an unfortunate eye opener next fall when they receive very little because there reference margin information is not correct or that their application has been prepared incorrectly and they have no idea what they were supposed to get in the first place.

[SASKFARMER3]

I get where your coming from and no I don't set out to not grow a crop. This year is just one joke after another its actually getting funny. Every time were hit by hail or rain its like wow their we go again. Oh well lets hope 2011 is excellent.
But here is one maybe you can explain if My margin is say close to million. Does my income have to fall by over a million to get one dollar out of agristability.
Also no income tax problem in 2011 like i was worrying about mother nature helped out with that one.

[SASKFARMER3]

First, I hope your margin is at least a million. I think you once said your farm was about 10,000 acres. You would want 1.5 to 1.8 for that size of farm and have a good reference margin.

I really need more clarification on your question to answer properly.

If you are meaning crop production income, the amount would not have to drop by that high of an amount.

If you take your estimated crop income and related payments from the 2010, subtract the 2010 allowable expenses, the net amount would have to be about 850,000 or less and agristability would kick in.

I wish you could get in front of my guy for an hour, you would learn a lot.

[SASKFARMER3]

Reference margin is the mill, mine is between 1.5 and 1.8.
Total allowable expenses same as last year. Roundup down Anhydrous down, seed and disease control up. Income from crop will be 1/2 of last year.

[furrowtickler]

S/f you should try a 3 year drought preceeded by a massive hailstorm that took out 1/2 the farm in two hours followed by the frost of '04 that almost everyone else felt. Be in freewheat's shoes. You piss and moan but ran good crops through most of those years, '04 being the exception. You wana talk a reference margin, try ****in near zero - that's what we had through 2000 to 2003 then 2004 frooze our balls to the wall as well as did many others. You are still very fortunate this year comparered to many others on the east side this year - give it a rest and count the blessings you do have man. Yes it sucks when yeilds are below ave, but have you ever had 5 bus or less? For more than one year in a row? There are alot of farmers who would love to be in your shoes, turn on the news and look what is going on in India, China, Russia, Pakastan or where ever. Go shine up your new paint and count your blessings that we live where we live.
Most are not going to get 1/2 of that gov't "flood" money b/c of red tape - so yes you are better off with 20bus/ac, stop whinning, you are starting to sound like a 5 year old that never got his way or someone got a better toy than you. Alot of us have been through alot tougher years than you and still made it.

[kryger]

Thank you furrowtickler.
SF3 usually kills the crop 5 times a year, but this year he has out done himself. Drowned out 6 times, did not finish seeding, did finish seeding, hailed out 4 times, calling for frost since July 15, can't understand why Stats Canada didn't tour his place and see the devastation.
Very tough to feel sorry for a guy that has 500 feet of airdrill, 3 combines, lake front property, Cargill, Pioneer and Viterra showing up at his farm offering deals, him bitching and complaining all the time.
SF3 would be a hoot at the local coffee shop.
Feel sorry for guys like freewheat, who hasn't had a crop for 3 or 4 years. There is a guy who can bitch. But he is probably too busy trying to make ends meet to be on here much.
End of rant.
Bring it on SF3, bring it on.

[riders2010]

And he is not the only one saskfarmer99 is sitting high on his perch looking down at the rest of us, trying to tell the world the reason there is no margins for people is we didn't fill the fu__ ing forms out properly. Is a good agriculture program one that the guy with the best accountant gets the most money, son of a bitch boys why are we letting this bull go on like this, there should be some nutless ministers by now. When you have multiple year losses you begin the spiral down in coverages and that is why 10 year averages and 5 year averages do not work and it's getting to be ****ing bullshit for those that had luck and crops to say oh well too bad that's the best we can come up with, **** the rest of you guys because my farm is gonna do alright, we need to say **** you back and do something about this bullshit. Those ****ers that are playing so smart with luck of weather and using accountants to work the programs also and basically laughing in our faces. Bullshit programs and a minister making up that all farmers are going to be alright because it's not the case WAKE UP WESTERN CANADA. Why should we be loosing farmers like FREEWHEAT and others when money is going to go through this program only to ones like sf3 and sf99 that had crops and need the money least of all of us simply because of that.

[riders2010]

And while I'm wound up, we need to straighten up the A-holes like Hursh and others that lobbied against farmers with little or no margin saying 30 ****ing dollars an acre is too much, on the one hand and on the other saying but don't worry because some farmers with 150 margin will collect from agrivation. Well are they too stupid to figure out that a 150 margin is 150 above allowable cost so in some cases like canola agrivation will guarantee those who had good weather 300 bucks an acre why is that not too much and those with small margins due 99% to weather problems next to nothing. And further more listen up all of you out there that are buying the bullshit from the agministers if they are saying they can't afford to pay anyone for losses other than the 30 dollars flooded do you think agrivation is going to pay many of you money?

[SASKFARMER3]

If you for one second don't think I feel sorry for free wheat your dead wrong. The govt should do way more to help. That's the point to all this BS rhetoric. Their is a area north of me that has every fricking thing thrown at them. IT rains rains rains. And its getting to point that next year is pouched pretty soon. We were 50 miles away from the line last year and one before and missed the very wet weather, but this year its moved south and east and bam were hit. So yes their should be more done. But hey how can Hursh Care. Because yesterday sold a piece of equipment to one of his neighbors and the guys was trying to tell me he was just as wet as us. Till your living it you don't know. This year we joined the club and wow what a life lesson.