Saskatchewan?

[cowman]

Is Saskatchewan the land of opportunity for cattlemen? We hear of the cheap land, the abundant rain, the room to expand. Now with Neilson Bros. moving into Sask. in a big way is this going to be the "big" cow country?
What are the drawbacks? Why is it better than Alberta?

[nakodo]

The Sask Govt seems to be buying equity (and in some cases a few years later having to take over the whole plant) in meat plants, providing tax perks for others and take over funds to others.

If you dont mind a govt partner in your industry I guess it is a interesting place to build a beef or pork plant

[cowman]

Oh, I see...just like Alberta then! Gainers, Fletchers, XL ...the list goes on and on. That's the wonderful world of politics and the meat industry! Hey and why not? If it allows Sask. to get market share and diversify away from a losing grain economy why not? Isn't that what it's all about?

[nakodo]

Wehn it works (and surprisingly the ones you listed did not work ;-) either) if diversifies the economy but one Venture/vulture capitalist once told me, it creates 95 pound weaklings for companies.

When majors like Cargill and IBP play on the beach it is a daunting challenge for a small firm in their game.

Can we think of a new way to build competitors in non-dominated niches that are strong enough to compete without the influx of tax dollars, what ways can we provide a helping hand without it being a prop to force a weak competitor into a brutal market.

I think cash equity by individuals (particularly ranchers) in these venutres, with representation on the board and in the shareholders meetings is a better way to go, should the government use the same tax dollars to provide income tax rebates inside an RRSP for farmers and businesspeople alike who invest in agriventures and economic development ventures instead of cash grants to firms who (dare I mention the meat firms in Ab whowere helped to build in one province then move to Saskatchewan a few years later?

[cowman]

I agree totally that that is the way to go.But please don't think IBP and Cargill didn't get a sweetheart deal from the Alberta govt. Which was okay, it captured the feeding industry for Alberta. And why would a major packer want to set up in Sask. with their dingbat government and small feeding industry?
The whole idea is that Neilson bros. are trying to change that by encouraging a feeding industry. Sask. has a lot of grain, cattle, and good people. Why export them all to feedlot alley in Alta.? Neilson bros. are good business people.

[nakodo]

One thing that may be of interest to these firms in Saskatchewan is labour. One Innisfail food processor has markets for enough product to go to 2 shifts but does not have the people to do 2 shifts, while these are not high paying jobs ($ 9.00/hour to start) they are decent jobs with security. They are already busing 30 people from Calgary to Innisfail every morning and are about 45 people short for the second shift and cannot find people.

If they try raising the wage offer to $ 12 the other employers in town also have to offer $ 12 to keep their people from walking across the street.

In Saskatchewan maybe there is the (albeit dwindling) population base to support these labour intensive, relatively low paying jobs in the food industry?

[ValueChainFX]

Keeping in mind that Cargill and IBP are the big guys and get there government money with the signature on one letter (rather then pages of business plans and a begging attitude) it is easy to see why they are here. They still have the dictators from the US that take full ccs of our very best beef to their breaking plants. These big boys do a wonderful job on commodity products, although their high turn over rate both on the floor and in management at the plants has created a very disturbing consistency challenge for them both.

Any plant that is going into the commodity markets and head to head with those boys has something loose in their heads! (just my opinion) But, what they do a rotten job at is meeting the specifications of their customers. Especially customers that require products in smaller boxes IE food service, exports, specialty markets, branded product etc. They try hard but once they have someone that is making these programs work they bring in some management guru that messes it up! So you can see that there is plenty of room for someone to get in there and make it work, and a ranchers group together would be the best way to ensure their future. As far as Sask. goes well, the cattle guys I have talked to have had two main reasons they are heading that way, one for sure is the pasture, and the second is that Sask has opened the doors to them, while it seems Alberta is looking at the industry as if they are Cargill and IBP!

[cowman]

The problem with the Alberta govt. is they have always liked big business too much. They tend to pick winners and losers and frankly they don't always do a very good job of it, at least not for the common man in Alta. Good for Telus, IBP, Cargill, LedCor etc. but not for us.
Who is going to work for $9/hr? Kids and immigrants. Can anyone raise a family on that kind of money? No way! Not in Alberta. These companys are just being cheap and trying to make big profits on the backs of their workers. If they have to be that stingy they should relocate to Mexico or Taiwan. Pay them a decent wage or get out...we don't need that kind of "value added"!

[cakadu]

The human resources issue in processing food is going to become more of a challenge than it already is. For many years they have not kept pace with the wages paid by companies in other sectors. How do we expect to attract a younger workforce when for the same education i.e. coming out of high school, they have the choice of going to work at a big beef processing plant or the potato chip factory for somewhere around $7 to $9 an hour or go work on the rigs for two and three times that much? It might not be quite as much of a problem now that the oil patch is rumored to be slowing activity, but these things have to be addressed.

Even if they wish to set up such an infrastructure in Sask., they still have to be willing to pay enough to have people come to work and workers also have to have benefits. There is more to a job than just a wage and some of these needs have to be addressed as well.

Processors, as a rule, tend to make their money on volume, so the more they put out, the more they make. What should we be talking to the processing industry about and how do we get them to not only listen, but take action as well?

[cowman]

Cakadu: You are sure right when you say the oil patch is slowing down! I have a buddy who is an engineer for Ensign and he has been off since July! But just like food the world needs energy and he's off to Saudi Arabia next week.
This whole idea that because people are involved in food production that they must work for peanuts is part of the North American cheap food policy! It's not right but that's just how it is! Have you ever figured out just how much you make per hour after you figure in all your expenses and interest on your assets? Not very pretty is it? Have we moved all that far from the old peasant system in Europe?

[ValueChainFX]

We are all talking about the same issues here and yet complex balance issues as well. Part of any system has to be balance. Our industry is fragmented because we do not have that balance. Regular line workers on the fabrication floor in the bigger operations are making around $15.00 an hour and then over time makes their cheques much fatter. When we look at Sask as the land of opportunity, or look at labor as an issue in our operation, then we also have to look at what we have to offer over and above cash incentives. Like a change in education (have seen several people in this forum and other farm forums wanting to get an agriculture experience) or life style (which seems to be the motive for a lot of folks hanging on today) what ever it maybe, SASK, ALBERTA or Timbuktu. Issues of finding people to work the farms and where the farms should be will always be there! The magnitude as to how they touch our business will depend on your innovation.

[cowman]

The thing that looks so good about Sask. is the chance to expand. I can buy 10 sections for the price of one here. And I'm not talking about desert either, but land that is as good as here! I live in an area that is rapidly becoming urbanized. Now there are a lot of advantages to that and a lot of disadvantages. This land is way too expensive to actually farm and especially to run cows on. Eventually guys like me got to go to make room for acreages and horses. I have a good life here and am not starving but I see a big opportunity in Sask. right now.

[ianben]

Hi Cowman
I have looked at Sask too. Found a dream grain farm just north of Battleford. It was a long way from anywhere though and I didn't think my wife and childern could have ajusted to the life.
There was room to expand like you say. We did visit the neighbours,their kids where all in Calagry. Went to college and that was that. Didn't see them much.
They were going to retire after their centinary in 2003 been there since 1903 when his grandfather settled the place.

Very sad and very common I'm sure.

So I'm still living surrounded by millions of people but still close to my childern.I think I made the right choice.

Regards Ian

[cowman]

Ian: What part of England are you from? I ask because both my great-grandfathers came from England. My paternal great grandfather came from Stratford-on-Avon.They had a farm just behind Anne Hathaways cottage. My maternal great grandfather was the head game keeper on Lord Kurzons estate in Sussex. I've never been to the British Isles but hope to make it over there someday.
cowman

[ianben]

Hi Cowman
I farm just outside Liverpool on what we call the urban fringe. Thats when you have a housing estate for a neighbour.
I visited Anne Hathaways cottage last March, my son was doing a project on Shakspear.
Very interesting.It is an old farm house and has been kept as it was 100 yrs ago,people in period clothes show you round and explain it all. So I think it would give you an idea of what your great grand-parents left behind.
Don't leave it till you are too old to walk round.
Book a flight hire a car and you can have a great holiday in the UK.
I would be pleased to show you round our farm if you decided to drop by.
It would be nice to put a face to the name.

Regards Ian