coyotes

[cowman]

Here in Alberta you can no longer hunt coyotes with dogs. Too barbaric!
Now I'm not against coyotes, in fact I rather like them! But they are getting pretty thick! Mainly due to the free lunch at all the local pig barns!
Where they also get mange which I really hate to see! Have you ever seen a coyote with mange? Not a pretty picture!!!
Is hunting with hounds cruel? Well not as cruel as starving and having your legs freeze off from mange!
But then dogs are pretty visible. They are a lot easier to catch than the snowmobiles!
What is with the government these days? Are they hard up for something to do? How come something that was perfectly okay for the last 100 yrs. is now this big crime?

[Muttley]

Each evening here in central Sk. I can hear the coyotes. I have had to get another dog to protect my animals. We purchased a commodore dog that seems to bark enough to keep them away from the corrals. The officials tell me I can't shoot one unless it is harming my livestock. I figure that by that time I have given them a free meal.
I do not wish them extinct but the powers that be need to take action to protect people and our property.
The ones making laws only see the pretty ones at the zoo. They have never been growled at in their own yard late at night checking cows, nor have they had to put to sleep a calf mangled by a hungry coyote. Their income is not effected by wildlife and only see what they want to.

[cowman]

You know I've never had a problem with coyotes bothering my calves. They cruise through the cows a lot but never tackle a calf. They worked my border collie over a couple of years ago and they are tough on the yard cats.
I usually get one or two mangy ones hanging around every winter. I put them down as quickly as I can because mange is an extremely cruel disease. Two winters ago I had a young female, who had one leg shot off in hunting season, winter in a straw bale. She dug a hole right in the center of the bale. I fed her all winter and it was nice to see her and her four pups hunting this summer. Coyotes eat a lot of mice and gophers and are beneficial I believe. Now if they develop a taste for calf I might change my tune.

[pandiana]

My experience with coyotes has not been a good one either. I have always had a small flock of sheep but 3 years ago I sold 90% because of coyotes. They started by taking down the young ones (so much for my profit) but when they started after my ewes I through in the towel. My flock is increasing again and I am not sure what I am going to do once they have to pasture outside my 3 acre board/electric fence. Those who know about these things say that there are good and bad coyotes. They can live quite happily around your cattle and sheep when there is plenty of the natural prey unless they develope a taste for your livestock. Then there is only one solution, a lead one.

[cowman]

pandiana: The simple solution...don't raise sheep! Seriously though, the coyotes were here first and I don't think anyone would really want them eliminated. They do a whole lot of good. My pig raising neighbors value them as a cheap way to clean up the all the dead pigs!
I saw a cute bumper sticker once that said " Eat more lamb, 50,000 coyotes can't be wrong"

[Muttley]

Surprise Cowman!! I'm a sheep breeder to. I always said that there would never be poultry or sheep on my farm, well I gave in to the kids and we have 20 ewes to lamb. OH OH does this mean I may be in for chasing chickens across my pasture next summer.

[cakadu]

Coyotes certainly aren't anyone's friend when they start taking livestock and I don't really like to see them shot, but if it comes down to my lambs or the coyote, I will pick the coyote every time. For the most part, we don't have much trouble with the coyotes and our lambs and we attribute that to having had a livestock guardian dog and now a llama. The livestock guardian does not get drawn out by a coyote but rather it stays with the flock and protects it. The dog is usually big enough to deter most coyotes as they can get upwards of 100 lbs. Ours was a Maremma and weighed in at around 125 or so. There are many different breeds of livestock guardian - Maremma, Great Pyrenees, Kuvasz, Kommodore, Akbash, Anatolian Shepherd - all have their good and bad points and are pretty much a person's preference just like for any other breed. The llama is a gelded male and he is quite bonded to his sheep and will quite often stay back with the ewes when they are lambing and gets to know the newborn charges he has.

Neither is full proof, but they do cut down considerably on losses and for the most part are extremely effective. It is quite the sight to see the sheep react to the llama and his weird call and they will actually go and bunch up behind him if he starts making his noises. When we had the dog, they would bunch when he started barking and if he didn't quit barking they would head for home.

Happy lambing!

[cowman]

I've never had any sheep but was always sort of interested in them. And I really like good fresh lamb! I bought some chickens once(mostly for the kids to play with)! Well the coyotes decided they really liked poultry so I butchered the survivors and never got anymore! I have a real hard time keeping the cat population up around here as the coyotes seem to have a taste for cats too. I figure well that's the life of a cat!
I do realize coyotes are pretty rough on sheep and if I owned any I would be down on them too.
As an aside I hear the sheep business is pretty ugly right now. How come? I still pay a pretty steep price for lamb chops!

[pandiana]

Yes, cowman, the sheep cycle is at the lowest point and also compounded by drought and feed shortages I think. In addition, there is still a problem with developing reliable markets for lamb. The US sheep inventory still declining and that should bode well for CDN lamb but we have not seen it yet.
Actually, I would have to admit that I have found that sheep have always been profitable if you can factor out the coyotes. The work load is moderate with an intense period during lambing and like cattle a few days dedicated to deworming, shearing and foot care. I have had very few health problems once the lambs are sucking.

[pandiana]

cakadu: If you were to make a choice between llama and dog, which would you take now that you have had experience with both? What is the failure rate? I understand dogs can go for $1000 ea. I would hate to pay this and have it not work out. You would have to have a large flock in order to make this pay. Bye the way, I have already tried a donkey. Nuff said!

[cakadu]

Pandiana, I would have to say that both have their strong points and it is hard to decide which would be better because we have really enjoyed both and both have done well in keeping the coyotes at bay.

The key to either one of them is that they have to be bonded to their sheep (or goats or whatever they are going to look after). They can't be bonded to you because then they won't do their job as effectively. You want them staying with the animals they are protecting.

The livestock guardian works on what is "normal" in his environment and any changes cause him to be on the alert. We once left a truck in the field because we were fencing and it was so out of the norm that the dog wouldn't quit barking at it until we brought it back up to the yard.

We socialized ours to accept people once he was told it was okay for them to be around his sheep and a friend of ours once pointed out to us that the dog always stayed between him and the sheep, but his little boy could have the run of the place. We didn't notice it, but it was interesting to watch.

Being a dog lover, I would have to say my final choice would be the dog. The kind of money you are talking about seems kind of high but things always increase in value. Choose what breed that you think will work for you. If you want more info and ideas on breeds, e-mail me privately and I'd be happy to answer your questions.

Linda

[cowman]

Linda: Do coyotes bother goats? I would think a goat should be able to handle a coyote. Excuse my ignorance here as I have no clue on these things!

[cakadu]

Cowman - not so much for the adults but the baby goats or kids, yes they can be a real problem. Kids are not much bigger than lambs and make a tasty alternative for dinner. We never had that much problem ,but we've heard of people who have had an absolute wreck because of coyote problems.