Bison and Elk

[cowman]

I don't know how many of you follow these industries but it seems to me they have gotten real ugly real fast! You hear stories of buffalo cows for around $700 and elk in the $1500 range. It wasn't that long ago a buffalo cow was $6000 and an elk cow over $15,000. So if you think the beef business or grain business is bad just think what a pounding these poor guys are taking! How can they survive? Is this the end of these industries?

[nakodo]

lets see, how long have business specialists been telling bison people it is not about breeding stock, it is about meat????.

The same with elk, Velvet was a nice sideline but without a meat market the "legs" of the industry could not last. Eventually they would glut the velvet market and have to sell meat. Before that eventually they would glut the breeding market and have to slaughter the females and cull males.

While they were making "thousands per animal" I wonder how many spent any of these profits on a marketing program, how many hours they spent lobbying their politicians to get meat production status for their products?

Seems it takes a price collapse to focus people on the market realities.

Breeding markets are like pyramid clubs, they only work until someone actually has to use the product, eat the product or process the product into something a consumer values.

Lets look back at exotic cattle booms (Italian double muscled, Chianina, miniature cows, wagyu), not to forget ostrich, emu, boer goats, llamas, chinchillas, ferrets, or look at crops, dwarf barley, dill, borage, mint and dozens of other examples - the only survivors are those who developed markets for consumer demanded products, based their economics around those price realities and invested some $ into understanding and developing sales routes to those consumers.

Who said "if we fail to study history we are doomed to repeat it"?

[cakadu]

I agree, Nakodo. Quite often people are caught up in the hype and unfortunately don't understand that they need to deliver what the customer wants at some point. I recall in one particular industry they had spent over $15 million on the animals, embryos etc. and then wanted the government to help when things didn't go the way they planned. If they had taken even 10% of that money and devoted it to looking at promoting, seeking out marketing channels etc. they would have been much ahead of the game.

What is frustrating is that quite often these new groups that emerge with the next great idea say, to their credit, that they would like mentoring and/or help in developing markets, what to look for etc. (in order to avoid duplicating the past history of other groups). When you try to ask questions or point out areas that need consideration you get branded as negative because you aren't looking at the world through these same rose colored glasses.

What would you suggest needs to be done in order to not have history repeat itself?

[nakodo]

I encourage new product developers to do some real market research. Real means sampling real customers in random tests with prices for the units to be sold disclosed. It is easy to say something tastes good if it has no price attached, if it costs like caviar and tastes like fish eggs however one might reconsider.

Realistic price discovery and understanding market distribution channels can go a long way to preventing the pyramid selling blues.

Another way to remember is "if it sounds too good to be true it probably is" and get rich quick schemes always involve much greater risk than get rich slow by hard work & effort.

[cowman]

I know what you say is true but I still feel sorry for those people. A lot of them saw this as a great way to diversify and sold out their cows to buy these animals. Was the idea basically flawed? Well from a productive standpoint it was...elk or buffalo could never compete with cattle in terms of actual meat production.
I remember all the hype about how there would be slaughter facilities and how the "experts" said the meat demand was almost unfillable. I think the collapse of the Asian velvet market is what did in a lot of the elk business. I think disease was the biggest problem there. Sort of like the mad cow thing in England.
So I don't feel sorry for the speculator who was playing the game but I do feel sorry for the little guy who got sucked in and will probably lose his lifes work.

[nakodo]

I agree, not nice to fall for the rose and gold stories to the detriment of the operation. I am especially upset with government and promoters helping to hype the process with stories of unlimited demand from Asia for velvet, for miniature cow steaks in Japan, for bison meat in Germany etc. The blame for the run-up can be shared widely but the pain is carried by only one usually. That is why it is important to do your own research.

My own cash problems are less as just this morning I got an email from Liberia offering to cut me in on an illicit diamond deal. If I send them my bank account numbers and a few blank cheques and let them use my bank accounts to clear the $ millions I can keep 15 %!.

[cowman]

Sounds like a winner! If you don't go for it come up and see me...I have some ocean front property at Hanna you are just gonna love...

[ianben]

I got the diamond deal too. You must be one the select few to be offer this opertunity as well!!!

[cowman]

Well I see now that Ted Turner is going to come to the rescue of the bison ranchers with a chain of fast food "Mac-buffalo" restaurants! I wonder what the prices will be? I wonder if they will even try to compete on price? Do you think the novelty of it all will do the trick? If it is sucessful could we soon have a Mac-ostrich?

[Muttley]

I have had buffalo burgers and felt that taste wise they were no different than beef. I guess it's the healthy choice but still a little more costly.
As for all the talk on investors wanting our bank accounts, well they can have mine and I won't even take a cut for the service.

[cakadu]

I have eaten a fair bit of buffalo and don't find it much different from beef. The cooking is what is important and in a fast food scenario, I'm not sure how that will go. It doesn't take much to turn it into shoe leather.

It will be more of an uphill battle with consumers though as many of them think of buffalo as "wild" meat and there is a huge aversion to it. There was a lady sampling buffalo burgers in the store in the small town near where I live and a lady with a couple of kids walked by. When asked, the little boy said "sure" and popped it in his mouth because I'm sure all he heard was burger. The mom said no immediately and the little girl followed suit. Maybe getting kids to eat it will be the trick - no stigma attached - yet.

[Deb]

My new neighbour has a herd of bison and he has nicely overgrazed his pastures. I included some Alberta Agriculture info on pasture management in with his Christmas card. I wonder if he will be offended or if he will appreciate it!

I will ask him how he makes money off his bison. I wouldn't mind buying one to eat!

[nakodo]

That would make one less to overgraze the grass too!

[cowman]

Deb: Buy a Beef! It will taste a lot better and it will be cheaper! And I suspect it will be just as healthy! There is no way buffalo can compete with beef on an economic standpoint. The average buffalo bull can only service about ten females. Three years old is pretty standard for a first calf. What are the gains in the feedlot compared to cattle? There was a reason these animals couldn't cut it...they were not economical! So if you want a lean animal, eat a holstein...better meat just as cheap!