The Alberta Advantage?

[bombay_43]

Overall I don't think that anyone has more love or concern for Mother Nature, than a farmer! The fact is, summerfallow costs money, and is a luxury that not all farmers can afford.

Check out land prices that Cowman was talking about. No way can a farmer pay those kind of prices, and not have his land produce! Once again in our ideal world....

I would venture to say that those who have unrealistic expectations when it comes to agriculture, are not the ones who make their major income, farming.

[cowman]

Actually our government "experts" have been telling us for years that only dinosaurs would ever use summerfallow. Our exalted agricultural minister just recently discovered that summerfallow is the answer to all our problems thus solving 30 years of science in one day!!! That and growing trees...we'll have huge tree plantations clean across the southern prairies! This will solve that pesky drought and clean up that surplus of wheat! And stop those whining farmers complaining about subsidies, because they'll all be too busy peddling their spruce trees in town!
When you have leaders like this you had better realize you are on your own and give up any idea of any govt. support! And you start to realize if all the departments of the govt. are so stupid this country is going into the tank real soon! Well unless you live in Quebec and make airplanes!
Frankly summerfallow is not really an option anymore, at least on this type of land. And the barley/canola rotation works very well in my area. There is not a decrease in productivity but an increase. And with the new GMO canolas I think a lot cleaner land!

[cowman]

Jensco: There is nothing wrong with starting small...everyone usually started there at one time. I will say it is a lot more difficult, than in the past, but still possible. The trick is to keep your nose to the grindstone and don't lose sight of the goal you are shooting for. And remember the old saying" Hard times don't last but hard people do!"

[cakadu]

I don't have any doubt at all that producers love the land - they likely wouldn't be there if they didn't. But sometimes loving something and doing the right thing aren't always the same thing.

Land prices are out of whack, but why buy more when you can never hope to get a decent return from it? How feasible is it to get $10/bu barley to pay for that land?

We all seem to be buying into this bigger is better notion and in order to survive we've got to get bigger.

Earlier today Cowman talked about growing cantaloupes in Hanna. He actually isn't that far wrong. There is a fellow in Maple Creek, Sk that grew 12 acres of pumpkins and several acres of melons. With the pumpkins, he grossed $12,000/acre and netted about $8,000/acre - so I'm told. He has a u-pick pumpkin operation and you can see that it did do well. Yes, there are a lot of upfront costs for seed, trickle watering systems etc., but look at the return. There is only one other cash crop that nets you like this and as far as I know pumpkins won't land you in jail.

Not everyone can grow pumpkins, and if everyone did, then the price would go down. What is important is that it is the innovation that makes it unique. Why work harder, longer and go more in debt when you can work smarter? It all comes down to risk and how much you're willing to accept.

The greater the risk, the better the payoff - normally. Yes, we keep telling the young that there is no money in farming, but I would hazard a guess it is doing it the way it has always been done. There are producers out there who are not going with the status quo who are making a pretty decent go of it. What would be wrong with letting the younger generation try something a little different? What have you got to loose? If you gave up 5 or 10 acres to test something out, would it be any worse than planting those acres to wheat and not getting your costs of production out of it?

Personally, I would like to see all you guys stay out there on the land and be able to make a decent living at it. How can we collaborate and help you guys to do it? I include myself here because I produce lamb as well. We don't sell it in the traditional markets and do all of it ourselves - we've cut out the middleman. Not that that is an easy undertaking either, but we're willing to do it. What if you were to work with a couple of neighbors, one who maybe has some selling experience and who likes to do it and see what markets you can find on your own.

Grow wheat if you must, but what about growing a variety that makes better noodles that can go into the Japanese market, or that will make better frozen bread dough, which is what the majority of bakeries - even good old supermarkets- are using to make that fresh baked bread everyday.

I have a lot of respect for producers and what they do and really want to see you all succeed, stay on the land and continue to do what you know and love.

[cowman]

Linda: I'm not against anybody getting out there and trying to make a buck. Good for them!
A lot of people in my area are doing the saskatoon thing and black currants. Sure is interesting talking to them about it, but personally I'm not interested.
Why do people buy more land when it can never pay for itself? Here's my neighbors idea on this...If the production can pay the interest that's all I want, as I'll make my money on the value going up.I know for a fact he bought one quarter,farmed it for 5 years and sold it for twice the money! I know this is true because I saw the check! Now I would say that sure beats a daily interest saving account at your local bank? Our land prices have more than tripled in the last twelve years.
I know veggies can put up some awesome numbers. I am always surprized that people would drive out to a place like Maple Creek to pick them? I mean where do they come from?
Let's face it, grain farming on a big scale, is a pretty good life. If wheat and barley and canola made a decent return it would still be the preferred method of farming. Livestock requires a lot of work and it ties you down. I imagine these little special crops are pretty close to the same. Wouldn't it be a lot more fun to spend summer at the lake and winter in the curling rink? Do you understand why farmers don't want to change?
Incidently I was talking to a young guy who used to work in the patch who is now growing that "specialty crop" you alluded to. He says he is netting about$5000/month! He said he wants to stay small so he won't attract undue attention! Says it sure beats wrestling power tongs around! He doesn't look at it as all that wrong as the government is in the business too! He also told me the stuff the government is growing is no good!

[bombay_43]

Land prices do the same thing as a *****s pants. They go up, and down! Farmers can not rely on their land for a retirement fund, as the final dollar amount is not in, until the land sells.

Right now land prices in my area are almost the same as 1982. We purchased a quarter back then for 70 thousand. In 1989 we purchased a comparable quarter less than 2 miles from this one, for eighteen thousand!

We have no immediate plans for retirement, although prices on land would dictate that now is a good time to sell.

The assets in farming, are just too volatile to be reliable for retirement planning.

Buying land, to resell, just to make money, is called speculating. Most farmers that I know do not base their land purchases on this type of speculating.

[cowman]

Liked that about the pants!!!
Speculating or investing? In the area I'm in land prices are only going to go one way...up! Land prices here have nothing at all to do with agriculture. A large Petro-Chemical industry does! When the "grunts" at these plants are making over $100,000/yr. it's not to hard to swing a loan! And then they get to play weekend farmer and enjoy the tax benefits! And this is good I believe. A lot of the farm land is being bought up by lawyers and doctors as an investment.
I do realize land prices have been in the tank in Sask. and Manitoba for quite awhile, but I also see prices pretty strong if close to a major city. Land close to Regina or Saskatoon isn't all that cheap.
One drawback of this high priced land is don't even think about an intensive livestock operation, cause it ain't going to happen! The county gets all kind of complaints in the fall about the dust and noise from those pesky farmers running their combines!! I mean how can you sleep at night if some farmer insists on combining after 10 P.M.?
The really sad thing is this is top notch land with thick black soil. And every year the city takes some more of it.

[jensco]

Sad thing is that urban encroachment is continuing. City planning has not in the past taken into account good agriculture land when going through the process. Just look at southern ON, best place in this country to grow soft fruits (ie peaches, various g****s) and it is the heaviest populated area as well. The oversupply we currently have may eventually be solved by over population.

[cowman]

And actually Jensco cities still don't consider what the land is like. They just keep expanding wherever it is easiest. Land capable of growing 100 bushel crops...2 feet of black loam. Happening everyday in Red Deer, Alberta.

[jensco]

That's exactly what I was referring to! They don't care and then urbanites fume when they have to pay more for groceries because it has to be shipped into their area or their subdivision backs onto farmland where "bad smells are coming from". Not very smart! We are talking about the segment (many of them anyway) that have no idea where their food comes from - education is a necessity. I know it is happening slowly in the schools out here in MB but the rural schools are more receptive. There's a glimmer of hope.

[Muttley]

10 acres of land in the city of Moose-Jaw sold for 800,000.00 to the local auto dealer to build a new dealership on.
Reminds me of my family's only real claim to almost being wealthy. In the late 1800's my relatives bought some land in Vancouver. After a few had died off it came into the hands of my great grandparents. They hired a lawyer to sell it for them, he informed them that it was waste land and that there was taxes owing. He said he might be able to find a sucker somewhere to buy it. Well guess what a few years later the family found out he was the sucker and the land has since been turned into part of Stanley Park.
I could have been one of those farmers whose biggest worry was which shirt to wear on vacation this week!!

[cowman]

If that lawyer was still around he would definitely be prime material for the federal Liberal Party! He certainly has the right attitude! Say, his name wasn't Jean Chretien by any chance???