Subsidies For Agriculture

[dalek]

Cowman:
Yeah that didn't come out quite right. Meant that standard of living didn't change that much compared to others in the same area who had to deal with cuts as well.

[cakadu]

Cowman, I'm not advocating going to cantelopes or things that don't stand a prayer of growing here. I am referring to looking at peas, for example. With the government wanting to increase pork production to 12 million hogs, they need to be fed with something. Peas are good pork and poultry feed. What is preventing growing more peas? How come we have to send out peas out of the province to get them split?

What would it take to have a pea splitter here? What about starting discussions with some processor about establishing something here instead of having to pay to ship them out and then ship the split peas back here.

I realize that the beef and barley industry is a huge draw for growing cereals, but we need to start looking in other areas.

Some of the responsiblity for planting decisions has to fall back on the shoulders of the producer. I am trying to understand why it is that if producer "x" decides to grow durham for the 5th straight year and the price doesn't look like it is going to go up for the foreseeable future, then why would that producer go ahead and plant duham again this year and then ask for subsidy help on top of that?

Part of this is assuming risk and if you're risk averse and don't want to try to grow new things, then don't you have to accept the consequences of that decision as well?

Please help me understand!

[cowman]

Linda: In my area there are quite a few peas grown too. The general consensus would be they are tricky to grow, have a fairly limited market, weeds can be a problem, and in reality canola offers a more stable return in a barley rotation.Peas can be good but they are not a real dryland crop as I'm sure many found out this year. In the drier areas wheat is the preferred crop because it can handle drought(within reason...not this year). I don't have all the answers and I suspect no one does. The real problem is we just produce too much food. And I don't know how you solve that problem.

[cakadu]

I don't begrudge anyone having a decent vehicle or house to live in and to make an honest wage for what they do and that very much includes producers. To me, it is very sad, that we have our food paid for by the beginning of February and that the producer's share is paid in the first 2 weeks of January. That just speaks to this latent, unwritten but all encompassing cheap food policy that exists.

I am still trying to work out how overcapitalized we actually are. How many pieces of equipment are actually needed? Can we make due with the old air seeder or do we need to get the newest model because it can place the seeds a little better. There's always trade-offs and risk.

If you have a little corner store and Co-op or IGA or the Safeway comes in and drives you out of business - who is there to help the little store owner? There is little recourse for them. Yes, the automobile companies don't lower their prices when the economy is in the tank like it is now, however, they did lay-off about 13,000 people as I recall. That's a lot of people out pounding the pavement looking for gainful employ. We can't look at these things in isolation, but need to look at the big picture.

The days of being able to grow something and have someone buy it are surely disappearing. End-users of our products want things that work better in their products because that is what their end-users are asking for. A producer doesn't need to be a marketer, but there is going to have to be some understanding of what is needed a little further down the line.

Those coming to the farm now are looking at it more as a business and have to make decisions accordingly. Some of them have an idea of what the global marketplace is really like, even if they are just selling their grain to the guy up the road to mill into flour to make a specialty noodle. What is required is for the older generation to let the reigns loose just a little to see if what the young are talking about can actually work. I'm not saying that you should give up total control - that is earned over time and should be based on results. The point is that they have to be given a chance to try.

Sure, they may not make money doing it the way you have done it for the past 15 or 20 years, but they may just be able to do it another way. What if they could make a difference?

[cakadu]

Cakadu: Where have you gotten all the comon sense from lately. It has been hard to find on these threads.

[cowman]

Linda:A good part of the problem is not so much passing the reins over to the younger generation. There is no younger generation there to pass it to!How many young people are returning to the farm?
And of course things will be done differently than in the past...think how much has changed in the last twenty years or so.
The small mom and pop store has pretty much disappeared, replaced by franchise stores. And don't you really think that is the future in farming? The small family farm is on the way out. Take a look at poultry farms and to a certain extent pig farms south of the border. They are company farms in everything but name.
And yes there is too much machinery out there! I was at a Pursuing Profits seminar once where the speaker was a banker. He said"The biggest problem in agriculture is too much machinery and the desire to own more!" And without a doubt big boys like big toys!

[bombay_43]

Sometimes wanting and needing become confused when it comes to farming.

The farmer does not need a new house, the one built in 1941 is still standing. The old rusty half ton still makes the trip to town, why consider purchasing a nice car?

Oh but a new/used tractor. That would make a nice addition. Toy or necessity?

If farmers do not continuously upgrade their equipment, the trade-in value depreciates to nothing, and it is just as hard to get going as a beginning farmer!

If your old tractor trades in for 10 thousand, it's money you do not have to borrow on that next tractor. Next year the old tractors engine, which has been sounding funny, might blow, and your old tractor is worthless!

So goes the old wheel! Round and round with all the equipment. It wears out, and must be replaced in order to continue farming.

The house and car don't generate income, so they will wait. Do I really want or need a new house or car when I am old enough to retire?

Oh and let us not forget our time factor here. You only have so many days to seed, make hay, and harvest.

It makes it a little more difficult to complete these things with an old John Deere R, than my new/old Case 2590!

Also, machine dealers are forcing farmers into bigger and better. Are you aware that no machinery manufacturer makes pull type combines anymore? It becomes increasingly difficult to trade up to a reasonable priced machine when they have not made pull types since around 1993!

[cowman]

I faced this problem many years ago. I was faced with replacing some grain equipment and had just got disgusted with the merry-go-round. Also the fact that going round and round a field was not my idea of fun! Also the fact that grain sort of sucked at the time. So I planted it down to grass and let the cows do the harvesting! Now I need only a chore/hay tractor, a haybine, and a baler. Of course a good reliable truck is awful nice when you are trying to find a cow in a blizzard at calving time. I actually don't have a car, but I do have a couple of fairly new pickups.
I do know that pull type combines are a thing of the past and a new combine is outrageous. As are swathers, airseeders etc. I think the days of the small farmer are looking bleak. I was talking to a guy in the auction mart who grows a few hundred acres of grain. Both the local elevators are coming down this summer and he will have to haul his grain about 40 miles. He told me that was it....he would be sowing down his land to hay. I wonder how many more will do this?

[rookie]

It isn't just the system that is making it tough for this small operator to survive. Its being squeezed by the big operators. Its not the fault of that nice older producer for selling out for the highest price . After all, they worked their whole lives and very hard for what they have. Thats business. And luck of the draw for those who come now.Maybe that was why those old timers told me to 'get a job'

[cowman]

Rookie: Many times I have wondered why I do this. When I crawl out of bed at 2 A.M.,to check cows, and it's -30 and the wind is a blowing. Or when it won't stop raining and I watch my hay crop getting another bath! Or fighting some disease in the calves and you wonder if anything will work! Or needing some major repair on a tractor or some other piece of equipment and wondering how you're going to pay for it! At those times I think I must be retarded or something?
But then there are the other times...the little calves bucking around in the straw when their bellies are full! A good soft rain after a dry spell! Talking with my friends and neighbors at a farm sale on a balmy day in April! Waking up and knowing I am the captain of my ship and I kiss no ones butt!! And then it all makes sense to me and no little piss-ant government expert will ever take that away from me! Because I am a free man living as my God intended me to live!!!

[rookie]

Two thumbs up... Thats the only reason why I stick it out . Why I humour other people in the business when I hear the late nite cold night stories... Sure thats tough. But my being newer to the ag world does mean those off farm jobs we have all heard about. And no doubt there are others reading who also daily or seasonally live on both sides of the fence. I am pretty sure I know where the green grass is... just how much though... Just a comment identifying some of the challenges some face

[jensco]

There are loads of us out here having to be on both sides of the fence. The reasons cowman gave are many of the reasons why we are all involved in agriculture. We want are kids sharing in many of the things that generations before experienced - good and bad. I just wish the government would go away since they always seem to do more harm than good.

Regards all!