Subsidies For Agriculture

[cakadu]

I don't begrudge anyone having a decent vehicle or house to live in and to make an honest wage for what they do and that very much includes producers. To me, it is very sad, that we have our food paid for by the beginning of February and that the producer's share is paid in the first 2 weeks of January. That just speaks to this latent, unwritten but all encompassing cheap food policy that exists.

I am still trying to work out how overcapitalized we actually are. How many pieces of equipment are actually needed? Can we make due with the old air seeder or do we need to get the newest model because it can place the seeds a little better. There's always trade-offs and risk.

If you have a little corner store and Co-op or IGA or the Safeway comes in and drives you out of business - who is there to help the little store owner? There is little recourse for them. Yes, the automobile companies don't lower their prices when the economy is in the tank like it is now, however, they did lay-off about 13,000 people as I recall. That's a lot of people out pounding the pavement looking for gainful employ. We can't look at these things in isolation, but need to look at the big picture.

The days of being able to grow something and have someone buy it are surely disappearing. End-users of our products want things that work better in their products because that is what their end-users are asking for. A producer doesn't need to be a marketer, but there is going to have to be some understanding of what is needed a little further down the line.

Those coming to the farm now are looking at it more as a business and have to make decisions accordingly. Some of them have an idea of what the global marketplace is really like, even if they are just selling their grain to the guy up the road to mill into flour to make a specialty noodle. What is required is for the older generation to let the reigns loose just a little to see if what the young are talking about can actually work. I'm not saying that you should give up total control - that is earned over time and should be based on results. The point is that they have to be given a chance to try.

Sure, they may not make money doing it the way you have done it for the past 15 or 20 years, but they may just be able to do it another way. What if they could make a difference?

[cakadu]

Cakadu: Where have you gotten all the comon sense from lately. It has been hard to find on these threads.

[cowman]

Linda:A good part of the problem is not so much passing the reins over to the younger generation. There is no younger generation there to pass it to!How many young people are returning to the farm?
And of course things will be done differently than in the past...think how much has changed in the last twenty years or so.
The small mom and pop store has pretty much disappeared, replaced by franchise stores. And don't you really think that is the future in farming? The small family farm is on the way out. Take a look at poultry farms and to a certain extent pig farms south of the border. They are company farms in everything but name.
And yes there is too much machinery out there! I was at a Pursuing Profits seminar once where the speaker was a banker. He said"The biggest problem in agriculture is too much machinery and the desire to own more!" And without a doubt big boys like big toys!

[bombay_43]

Sometimes wanting and needing become confused when it comes to farming.

The farmer does not need a new house, the one built in 1941 is still standing. The old rusty half ton still makes the trip to town, why consider purchasing a nice car?

Oh but a new/used tractor. That would make a nice addition. Toy or necessity?

If farmers do not continuously upgrade their equipment, the trade-in value depreciates to nothing, and it is just as hard to get going as a beginning farmer!

If your old tractor trades in for 10 thousand, it's money you do not have to borrow on that next tractor. Next year the old tractors engine, which has been sounding funny, might blow, and your old tractor is worthless!

So goes the old wheel! Round and round with all the equipment. It wears out, and must be replaced in order to continue farming.

The house and car don't generate income, so they will wait. Do I really want or need a new house or car when I am old enough to retire?

Oh and let us not forget our time factor here. You only have so many days to seed, make hay, and harvest.

It makes it a little more difficult to complete these things with an old John Deere R, than my new/old Case 2590!

Also, machine dealers are forcing farmers into bigger and better. Are you aware that no machinery manufacturer makes pull type combines anymore? It becomes increasingly difficult to trade up to a reasonable priced machine when they have not made pull types since around 1993!

[cowman]

I faced this problem many years ago. I was faced with replacing some grain equipment and had just got disgusted with the merry-go-round. Also the fact that going round and round a field was not my idea of fun! Also the fact that grain sort of sucked at the time. So I planted it down to grass and let the cows do the harvesting! Now I need only a chore/hay tractor, a haybine, and a baler. Of course a good reliable truck is awful nice when you are trying to find a cow in a blizzard at calving time. I actually don't have a car, but I do have a couple of fairly new pickups.
I do know that pull type combines are a thing of the past and a new combine is outrageous. As are swathers, airseeders etc. I think the days of the small farmer are looking bleak. I was talking to a guy in the auction mart who grows a few hundred acres of grain. Both the local elevators are coming down this summer and he will have to haul his grain about 40 miles. He told me that was it....he would be sowing down his land to hay. I wonder how many more will do this?

[rookie]

It isn't just the system that is making it tough for this small operator to survive. Its being squeezed by the big operators. Its not the fault of that nice older producer for selling out for the highest price . After all, they worked their whole lives and very hard for what they have. Thats business. And luck of the draw for those who come now.Maybe that was why those old timers told me to 'get a job'

[cowman]

Rookie: Many times I have wondered why I do this. When I crawl out of bed at 2 A.M.,to check cows, and it's -30 and the wind is a blowing. Or when it won't stop raining and I watch my hay crop getting another bath! Or fighting some disease in the calves and you wonder if anything will work! Or needing some major repair on a tractor or some other piece of equipment and wondering how you're going to pay for it! At those times I think I must be retarded or something?
But then there are the other times...the little calves bucking around in the straw when their bellies are full! A good soft rain after a dry spell! Talking with my friends and neighbors at a farm sale on a balmy day in April! Waking up and knowing I am the captain of my ship and I kiss no ones butt!! And then it all makes sense to me and no little piss-ant government expert will ever take that away from me! Because I am a free man living as my God intended me to live!!!

[rookie]

Two thumbs up... Thats the only reason why I stick it out . Why I humour other people in the business when I hear the late nite cold night stories... Sure thats tough. But my being newer to the ag world does mean those off farm jobs we have all heard about. And no doubt there are others reading who also daily or seasonally live on both sides of the fence. I am pretty sure I know where the green grass is... just how much though... Just a comment identifying some of the challenges some face

[jensco]

There are loads of us out here having to be on both sides of the fence. The reasons cowman gave are many of the reasons why we are all involved in agriculture. We want are kids sharing in many of the things that generations before experienced - good and bad. I just wish the government would go away since they always seem to do more harm than good.

Regards all!

[Muttley]

In many of the discussions I hear the comments that we wish gov't would leave us alone.
I'm not so sure of this, not that I don't want it to happen but that without some sort of gov't help many may not be able to keep farming. Right now in my area many are wanting assistance for water or to have the gov't toughen up on the fertilizer and chemical companies on what they charge.

It's nice to say we will sell our product at the door, or farmer to consumer but face facts that if we all do it the market is flooded and then what do we do?

I am tired of off farm work all day and farming at night. I am tired of diversifying and then watching my neighbors grow the same thing. At what point do we say enough is enough and leave what we love(farming) to move on?

If you were to look at my town alone there is many farmers holding jobs that should be held by somebody else. We are doing this to keep our farms instead of our farms keeping us like it used to be.

[jensco]

What you say is true. The change in product etc and then someone else picking it up can happen in any business.

Our government does not have a positive look on agriculture. Also, many have no experience with it. Thus, the programs are designed by the ignorant to help the perceived ignorant so that the truly ignorant (urbanites with regard to agriculture)can get a cheap Big Mac. The result is making a bigger mess. The blanket statement of having the government butt out is not a valid solution, however, drastic changes are required at this level if appropriate progress can be made in helping the "farmer" - in my opinion!

[countryguy]

Muttley,I think what we have to do as farmers is for all of us to band together and eliminate the middle men that are robbing our profits from us.Why can't we have large farmer owned processors and retailers?If we had farmer owned grocery chains and provided the same foods or better at the same prices consumers are paying now,why wouldn't they buy from us.Instead of them dishing out their tax dollars as subsidies they would be supporting us at the level we are supposed to be supported at.It's a win win situation for everyone,except the ones that are robbing us now.Hope your calving is going good if your into it now.

[Muttley]

I agree having a farmer owned business would be great. What bothers me is look at the Sk. Wheat Pool. That was farmer owned and the big wigs in head office put it on the stock market and it has went right down the tubes eversince.
I was on the local pool board when they approached us about selling shares, many were against it as we felt we would loose control. We later found out the decision to sell had been made already.

[cowman]

Sask.Wheat Pool got old and lazy just like any bureaucracy! It all came down to the per diems and perks for the top cats, and they forgot why they were there! They have done some truly bizarre things on their way to oblivion! Buy up assets and run them into the ground and then sell them at bargain basement prices. My local auction mart was bought by Sask. Pool. Within a year they had taken it from one of the top auctions to one of the worst!!!! Of course once they had ruined it, they sold it to Neilson Bros who have pretty well got it back on track. Smart move be Neilson Bros. dumb move by Sask. Pool!!! Well run it is a gold mine!!!

[ianben]

Personally I think most farmer run organisations will flounder because we are farmers not millers or auctioneers.
Why is taking over these businesses different from the job in town. Someone is already doing a good job they buy our goods at the best price for them,just like we buy our imputs etc as cheap as we can, if someone would sell fert at $20 I would buy it,so why blame them.
Everyone except farmers has a bottom line you don't see our suppliers with a day job.
It is our fault for not having the confidence and organisation to hold for realistic prices.
Governments try to help but confidence does not come in cans and we seem incapable of trusting one another. So we are just left with a natural disaster to reduce supplies and create a shortage.
Till then dont give up the day job