PETA

[cowman]

I believe if you own animals you have a duty to that animal! To feed them,take care of them and to not let them suffer. When you have an animal that is old, sick or disabled the kindest thing is to kill them. Example I had a border collie that got run over. For awhile it looked like she might recover but in the end she was paralyzed in the back legs. The vet suggested a little wheel set up for her rear end so she could get around! The kindest thing I ever did was when I shot her! And do you know if it had been me paralyzed I would have wanted someone to shoot me!
What bothers me about groups like PETA is they are a bunch of city slickers who in no way understand animal agriculture or the economics of it. If the farmer can not make money at raising animals then he won't own them! I agree with Rod that the term "factory farm" is misleading. I mean who are these evil "factory farmers"? I live fairly close to a 2200 sow barn. Is this some evil foreign corporation? No! It is owned by a guy I played by the creek with as a child, played baseball with as a teenager, our kids played hockey together....in otherwords my good neighbor! He buys a lot of barley and wheat in the area, supports all the good causes, provides a lot of jobs, and puts on one hell of a party every year for all the neighbors! Is it wrong that he wants to make a buck? Would everyone be happier if all the farmers had to go back to subsistence farming? If there is no real money in farming then there soon will be no farmers!

[Deb]

Just out of curiosity Cowman, 3 or 4 questions for you. Do you live downwind? How many acres does that farmer have on which to spread his manure? Does he have a lagoon? That's an awful lot of sows. Is he raising them for Puraton or Elite Swine or something like that?

[nakodo]

One of the PETA supporters walked into the toughest bar in town, strode up to the biggest biker in the place. He was decked out in black ; leather chaps, leather jacket, leather belt and leather shoes.

The PETA rep waggled a finger in his nose and said "did you know a cow was murdered to make that jacket?"

He paused, slowly looked up and said...

"yes, but I didn't realize there were any witnesses, now I have to kill you to!"

[cowman]

Deb: I live about 4 miles away so I don't get any smell. He injects all the manure and he has a huge lagoon. Believe it or not it doesn't really stink all that much . He only has 320 acres but his brother has about 1500 so they have no problem disposing of the manure. He owns a major share in an even bigger pig barn down south somewhere. And he has some sort of deal with a whole bunch of smaller finishing barns. He retains ownership of all the pigs and basically pays these guys to feed them out.
He is a good businessman and is very smart. Before he went into this business he was an oil consultant who oversaw projects all over the world...Saudi Arabia, the north sea, Beaufort, Venezuela. He comes from an old pioneer family in this area and is very well respected.

[redhen]

Re: Cowman and killing old, injured or disabled critters...

Yes, I was raised with that philosophy. In fact, I believe that in certain situations we should do as much for humans in terms of allowing us to choose how we end our lives.

BUT (you knew there would be a "but") there is an entire dimension you and others may be missing: that illness and challenge bring opportunities for personal and spiritual growth, even with animals. There is a Zen saying that "The obstacle IS the path."

With that in mind, I have been privileged to facilitate the healing of many creatures who otherwise might have met the fate you favour (which is usually far less expensive and time-consuming than rehabilitation) if they had belonged to anyone else.

I know I walk a road less traveled, but I have learned volumes from the critters who have come our way in need of fostering or rehabilitation.

The first was a retired standardbred off the Alberta track, 8 years old, recently gelded and a bleeder. Most owners would have "canned" him, but his owner knew we were looking for a good family horse. I accepted many challenges in exchange for a $400 price tag on a $20,000 claimer, and it took 2 years for his hormones to quit raging, but we learned together. Now 22, Star is my therapy horse who keeps me limber despite rheumatoid arthritis.

Our success in reclaiming Star paved the way for the rehab of many other critters, wild and domestic, whose courage and wisdom have changed our lives. We would not have had these experiences if we held unwaveringly to the "killing is kindness" rule. Sometimes that rule is meant to be broken.

For example, if you had given your BC the option of a good quality of life with a little cart, he may well have taught you a thing or two about the flip side of "humane euthanasia."

When our BC got tangled up in the legs of our horse, the vet wanted to amputate his rear right leg just below the hock. All four metatarsal bones had been sheared, rotated and displaced upward. One look at Jake and we knew he didn't want to forfeit his leg. Collectively, we managed to re-aligne 3 of the 4 metatarsals and the vet applied a walking cast. Jake was 4 then. Today he is a vibrant 13 and to see him run you'd never guess he'd had such a serious injury.

I guess it depends on our willingness to look for the lessons in such challenges. Some people simply don't have the interest, time or money to invest in rehab. In those cases, it is likely more humane for the animal to be destroyed.

Or.... you can send them to us. )

[cowman]

Elizabeth: I am quite sure everything you do is done out of the best of intentions and I do respect that. Maybe your way is the best way and you could be very right about most people(myself included) not wanting to invest the time and effort.
I remember a couple of years ago coming across a fawn whos mother had been killed on the road. He was pretty pathetic. I had a young girl with me(employee) and she made a big fuss when I suggested I should knock him in the head rather than let him suffer. Well, in the end we ended up driving him 60 miles to the Medicine River Rehab center and on top of that she talked me into donating $20 to the center! Now quite frankly I think that was sort of a dumb idea(taking the fawn there not the donation!). But it was kind of an eyeopener because we got a little tour of the center and learned what they do. They have a lot of hawks and owls, which have always been a great interest of mine.
As far as the dog goes, this was a very intense working dog and I truly doubt if she would have been happy if she couldn't work. So I made a judgement call....and it wasn't easy because I really loved that dog!
Euthenasia is a good thing I believe. You wouldn't let a dog or a horse suffer like some people have to! The only problem is it can be a slippery slope and pretty soon you could have people knocking off all the old people. But believe me it is in practice! You would know this if you spent some time in the cancer ward. They call it pain relief...and it is. One massive dose of morphine and thats all she wrote. And that is a good thing.

[countryguy]

Deb and Redhen,you'd be happy to know that I've revived a few animals in my day from near death.Its a nice feeling to see them pull through.I swear one cat I saved thinks she owes me her life for it!! LOL

[Deb]

When I first started working on farms, I had to kill a lot of runt pigs and kittens with distemper and stuff like that. I shook and felt sick when I first killed an animal. Then I got used to it and consoled myself by saying that the animal was better off.

Years later I left farming and raised a family. Now when I have to kill a sick rabbit or one of my red hens, something I know I have to do away with, I feel terrible. I figure that my conscience goes to sleep when killing becomes a necessary routine. But killing one rabbit that is almost like a pet, is hard because my conscience is awake and it just doesn't like having to take a life. I always ask its forgiveness when I bop an animal on the head

[redhen]

There sure is no right or wrong path, is there?

Each situation must be considered from many perspectives, and Cowman I totally understand the powerful intellect of a working BC. That's why we worked so hard to save Jake's leg without resorting to costly surgery... his ability to work and feel useful was indeed his life. Sorry about your girl.

Country Guy, I KNEW there was a soft spot somewhere. ) We have a kitty like that too... she is a total mush-bear, as if she still has to thank us every day for trapping her, taming her and giving her a new life - against the advice from the SPCA and our vet, who feared she may have carried diseases that would endanger our three other cats. We followed our instincts on that one.

Deb... what can I say? Doing the right thing is sometimes the most difficult. We raised Cornish Giants and BBWhite turkeys one year. Everyone was thrilled with our poultry and we made a healthy profit, but the cost to my spirit was beyond measure when we had them processed. The silence in the poultry yard was deafening. Now we have brown layers so we don't have to kill them for protein. Some are approaching the age of 5 and we've already had to humanely destroy a few due to being egg-bound. Some have died of natural causes. The ones who needed rehab and were welcomed into our family rest beneath a fruit or berry bush planted in their honour. That way, they are giving back to other birds and we have a visual, living memorial.

*toasts all the critters we have loved and lost*

[cowman]

Elizabeth: You should let those old chickens have the run of the place. Won't take long for old mr. coyote to set up shop! And just think how you are recycling and letting nature take its course? And remember, coyotes have to eat too!