Ag development vs. Rural development

[countryguy]

The town I live near will survive and thrive,not because of agriculture but do to the growing native population!Agriculture here will be a dead duck within 15 years.I can maybe count half a dozen young farmers within 30 miles of here,and they are starting to lose interest,especially on the grain side of things.Sadly I see many farmers in their late 50's or early 60's buying up land like crazy,thinking they are building equity.They aren't thinking that when they are done and want to sell and there is no one around willing to buy,what are they really worth?There are a few large farms around but one by one even they are going broke and the ones that do remain can't farm it all!

[Deb]

The government should buy up all that land, seed it to pasture (lots of fescue and other drought tolerant species) and use it as a commons and put bison on it.

[cowman]

Oh, Deb that is a good one! Lets see: then we could ship country guy and all his buddies and neighbors out to the land of opportunity(Alberta?) and we might as well turn Sask. into a buffalo pasture too. Then we could get all the Indians out there hunting the buffalo! There would be no more towns for them to hang around in getting drunk!
Now if we could just figure out where the money might come from??? And how would the government force those dumb farmers to quit?

[ianben]

Good to see we do not have a monoply on people with crazy ideas.
There is talk of reintroducing the wolf into Scotland.
If cowman is right, will we have urban Red deer in Inverness?
Why do people think they can predict nature? What will be good or bad. Some of my worst mistakes turned out well. Often when I think I have done a perfect job nature proves who knows best. Wrecked!!!
Can people influence nature or are we just continueing to evolve?
Surly we must be the next dianasaur and make way for the next age.
Turning the clock back is not an option

[cakadu]

Ianben I agree with you - you can't turn back the clock and things will keep evolving. What we need to do is to ensure that our evolution does as little damage to the whole as possible. Not everything we've done has been for the better and just because we can isn't necessarily a good enough reason to go ahead and do something.

I think there is room enough for everybody out there, we've just got to find a way to make it all work. Not an easy task.

[cowman]

Linda: I'm not really up on the new ILO rules. They don't even call them ILO's anymore. My Dutch neighbor tells me that in Alberta everything is wide open now. If you jump through the right hoops you can build a pig barn or feedlot wherever you basically want. And while I don't believe that is totally true(when it comes to governments I am A tad cynical!) I suspect we could be in for some hot old times the next few years! The government has stated it wants to increase hog production big time. And now it has the law in place to let that happen! We may not like it but that's what is coming.
Now I'm not against hog barns or feedlots!! As long as they are not in my backyard...or unless I own them!!!
One of the requirements for pig barns is that they need a certain amount of land for manure and a certain distance from existing farmsteads. My neighbor tells me the bigger outfits are getting around this by giving farmers that are too close, shares in the company thus making them a part owner!! Then they can go ahead and build the barn! It is amazing how people come to accept something controversial once they are on the gravy train! I remember a farmer who fought tooth and nail to keep a small gas plant from being built near his farm. It was going to kill his kids, ruin his sleep, cause his animals to abort! When the oil company wrote him out a check for$10,000(consulting fee!!) and paid him to cut the grass, you would not believe how fast he became all for progress and bragged up the oil company as a safe and responsible corporate citizen! Maybe these feedlots and hog barns need to share the wealth a bit and the problem will disappear???

[rodbradshaw]

Ianben
The wolves will love all that Scottish lamb and baby veal.
Unfortunately people do not know their history. Some people feel that if something happened two hundred years ago or in our case 100 years ago that it was always that way. I remember walking the hills of the Mull of Kintyre on 3 feet thick peat furrows. The land had been sold back to the forestry and I assume that today it is a magnificent plantation of trees. Some people would say that it should have been left to the grazing sheep but if you go back in history it had been a forest at one time.
We have neighbours that homesteaded near us a 110 years ago. They had to go 5 miles to find fire wood that first year. Today with fire prevention the land is probably 20% trees. Deb talks about the land at Waterton, but if it was left to mother nature it would soon be over run by poplar and soon the elk would move on to where grazing was easier.
We need to protect the enviroment from large scale erosion and pollution. But to say that one use or another is the way it would be if left to mother nature is only a guess and a poor one at that.
Rod

[Deb]

The ranch at Waterton now about to be subdivided was grazed, which kept down the aspen, and the elk took their share as well, of aspen. I'm aware that elk like to graze where cattle have grazed before them.

[Deb]

Everyone should get the March 28 issue of The Western Producer and read page 117. Sensible, logical, and a good antidote to the mindless lets-suck-the-life-out-of-rural-Canada-and-become-millionairs-on-intensive-livestock-operations. Let me know if you want a summary. Both articles on that page are good, come to think of it.

[Deb]

Cakadu, I have friends who are trying to go a different route. They want to raise pasture-fed beef and are going to a Holistic Resource conference to learn about that, and they read magazines about sustainable agriculture and organic farming and whatever they can get their hands on. I think they could develop a fairly good market around here with some advertising. I was wondering if I could put them in touch with you. I don't think they have internet access. You know my name and number, Joyce does for sure, so please give me a call later next week and I'll put you in touch. Thanks.

[countryguy]

Deb I just read that article and am happy to say that is the path I'm on.Money doesn't mean anything anymore.Instead I've decided to quit the game that is played today and just try to live the best quality of life that I can.The holistic management course is the best money I have EVER spent.Everyone should take it.It changed my life.

[cowman]

I read the article and quite frankly I wasn't all that impressed! I mean 150 cows on 15 quarters of land??? That is ten cows per quarter...I doubt if they make enough to pay the taxes! It is all very good to save the environment if you don't need the money and farming/ranching is just a hobby. These two old boys aren't relying on the calf check to pay for their groceries!
This whole holistic thing is okay but the people who take it tend to go a little strange and treat it as a religion! Like any religion there is an initial period of elation...I found the light sort of thing! I took the course and while I got something out of it I sure never bought the whole spiel. Been in business too long I guess.

[Deb]

Is there any way I can put you in touch with my friends who are beginning down the road of holistic management? Linda? Joyce? Is this permitted?

[Deb]

Cowman, some will take very little from the holistic course, some will take more and some will find that the whole idea works perfectly for them. We're all at different locations and stages and have different resources and different definitions of happiness. Every little bit of holistic thinking helps.

[Deb]

I just had a thought from the Clean Air thread - a rancher could add clean air to his advertisement for his ranch vacation resort like some of those bars advertise the oxygen boost they sell. He could list all the noxious compounds in car exhaust. Just a thought.