Benchmarking

[Deb]

Where was your dad's sense of humour? the piggies were just trying to liven things up around the old farmstead.

Community supported agriculture is growing fast. it started in Switzerland 25 years ago. there are about 600 in the States and lots in Ontario and a few in BC. For a fee, the farmers grow what the customers ask for and the customer can supplement the payment with volunteer weeding or harvesting.

Try: http://www.umass.edu/umext/CSA

e-mail: cscan@bcn.net

I haven't checked the website yet so I don't know what's there.

There was a good article in the Western Producer Sept 6, 2001 about a CSA farmer, Ken McMullen.

[cakadu]

Rod, you're right about the extra effort needed to do your own direct marketing. It definitely isn't for the lighthearted or someone who doesn't have the drive and dedication to make it work. (And by the way, I do buy a lot of my fresh produce from you at the farmers market in the summer.)

It is an area that is really growing though and farmers markets are getting bigger all the time. You do have to be a little careful that you're not just dealing with the guy that goes to Costco and sets up shop at the market, but there are a lot of great things there.

In answer to your question countryguy, I'll start another thread on this direct marketing thing and farmer owned stores.

[rodbradshaw]

Countryguy
With food safety protocols changing rapidly and costs increasing it would be better to try and work with some one like Federated Co-op. With their Co-operative structure pressure could be applied to get them to support more local product. They have a distribution system and store to deliver the product. It would be up to the producers to deliver the customers. Then producers could work together on processing facilities as a raw product will not attract alot of attention in todays busy world.

Deb
Community agriculture works well if you have a large community (100000 )within a short drive especially if you think your going to get a lot of help with weeding and that kind of thing. The first year may go well but eventually you will only get the die hards and unless you have a large pool to draw from the second and subsiquent years will be a struggle. You need a lot of people to help because to deliver a wide variety of product takes more effort than to deliver a few carrots, potatoes and zucchinni.
Rod

[cakadu]

I guess the long and short of this is that to me, the benchmarking seems a fairly simple undertaking. Do some air, soil, water testing to see where things are at now and then on a regular basis - yearly, bi-annually, or whatever do testing in the same areas to see how much, if any, change there has been. That way we can get some idea of how the environment surrounding these CFO's is being affected.

How easy would this be to do?

[cowman]

Who would monitor it and who would pay for it? If you say the provincial government, forget it. They are not going to spend one red cent on anything like this. The EUB(energy utilities board) doesn't even monitor well site cleanups anymore! They rely on the word of the oil companys that an adequate cleanup has taken place. They only get involved if the farmer protests...and then basically to override the farmers concerns! You have to remember where you are living Linda,Alberta where big business makes the rules!

[cakadu]

Then isn't it time to take a stand and start changing the rules, or better yet, those who make the rules?

I am completely frustrated by the fact that yesterday all kinds of fees, fines and taxes went into effect and our seniors got the shaft by having their funding for things like glasses and teeth cut. Sure, say the government people, it was only $120 for a set of eyeglasses, but when your on a fixed income, that $120 can mean a lot.

At the same time yesterday, the MLA's got a 3% RAISE on top of what they voted themselves last August so now their base salary is $79,000/year with a $6700 contribution made to an RRSP (where does that money come from?!?!?!) and their taxable allowance is going from $21000 to $29000/year. Perhaps if they earned it, it wouldn't be so upsetting.

We need to start speaking to our MLA's etc. and lobby for these types of controls before no amount of oil revenue will pay for the clean-up!!

[Deb]

Thank you Cakadu! You are right on! Yes, we need to boot out the present oligopoly. We need a change desperately.

[rodbradshaw]

Since when did the magic age of 65 mean that you become a ward of the state? There are people out there that are in their seventies and go to work every day. I know as I have two in my organization. The other thing is there are income thresholds, it is over 18000 for a single or 27000 per couple. Thats equivalent to $9.50 an hour wage for the average working stiff. I know of lots of people that work for less than this and don't cry when their government handout is reduced.

As long as we are going to keep antiing up for higher and higher Health Care and Education costs we are going to have to keep cutting things like roads, police, enviroment and other things, you make the choice.

The other thing is check into what it costs to live in either of the provinces or for that matter any of the other provinces in Canada. If you want to pack your bag and go to the US you might have a reason to complain about Alberta but it is still the best place in Canada to live.

[cowman]

You are sure right about the age thing Rod. My mother is 80 and because she has some money and income the government claws back all her old age pension and the pension she gets because my dad got shot up so bad in the war. On top of that she has to pay income tax every three months. She just goes wild if you mention anything about the government!!Says all the bums who sat in the bar all their life are on the government tit while she pays for it! If you think I am some kind of old red neck you should see this old girl!!
I notice that while everyone was getting hammered in the last Alta. budget, health care got another $458 million, teachers got a lot more(we'll probably really find out when we get this years land taxes), and the politicians were good to themselves(and I noticed they all voted for it but the NDP, and they "reluctantly" accepted the will of the majority?). Roads and infrastructure got cut as well as agriculture big time!
So I hope you ladies tell your MLA to get those damned doctors, nurses and teachers under control, while you are giving him hell about his own salary!!!

[Deb]

We don't have a spending problem, we have a revenue problem and we are getting ripped off by thos oil and gas companies!!!

Our royalty and taxation rates in the oil and gas industries have dropped since Peter Lougheed was premier. There would be no financial crisis if the oil and gas industry was paying what they did in the mid-eighties. Today we get less than half the rate from back then. The oil companies would not go away if we upped the rate, they need our oil. From 1992-1997, Norway collected more than two times Alberta's rate and Alaska got more than we did too. We're cold-hearted idiots in Alberta, especially for voting these morons into a dictatorship all the time. They haven't a clue what they are doing. the same thing can be applied to the forestry industry. We're giving that resource away too.

[cakadu]

Nobody is saying that at 65 you become a ward of the state and that you should have everything handed to you. Things are great if you're on an indexed pension, but there are seniors out there who truly struggle after having put in all their years working etc. All some have is their CPP and old age security. I would say that those sitting on a bar stool all day are in a very small minority.

Cowman, the reason your mother pays income tax every 3 months is because she doesn't have it deducted from source i.e. getting paid a wage and most people who fall into this category pay quarterly in order to avoid the "big whopper" at tax time.

The "extra" money for the teachers was actually their own money that would have been paid to them had they not been on strike, so it wasn't new money for them. The doctors got their 20% as a vote grab running up to an election.

We are paying the lions share of the health increases by increased premiums. If everyone else has to tighten their belts, then our elected officials should be leading by example, not giving themselves more at a time when all we hear is shrinking revenues from oil. Isn't there one person in the finance department that could say to the budget makers - "look, we shouldn't be basing all of our revenues on ridiculously high oil prices ie $35/barrel for the next year or 18 months."? What if you guys based your incomes on $2.00 calf prices? It would be nice, but pretty unrealistic.

Why should the electric companies be allowed to recoup their lost revenues when the cost per kwh was capped at 11.5 cents? What other person or organization can say that because we lost revenue last we we're going to gouge you for the next 2 years in order to make it back and be allowed to do it?

One day we might be these short-sighted toothless people running around looking for some help. What then?

Remember, if we keep going to the same well, we're going to get the same water.

[cowman]

Linda: I don't have all the answers! If I did I'd be running the show instead of bitching about it! Like you I am frustrated with this so called conservative government. It seems to me the real fiscal conservatives are gone(Dinning and West) and all we have left are the crooks and clowns(Kowalski and Klien!).My problem is who do we replace them with? Nichols? Raj? Well what do they say? More money for health care! More money for Education! More money! More money! more money!
Well here is a little bit of wisdom...there is no such thing as a free lunch!! More money means one thing...more taxes!! What we need is a politician who says" I will spend less money. I will cut spending on education and health care!"
Is my old mother wrong to complain about getting no benefits while others do? If she has money by her own efforts(in spite of the government,NOT in any way because of them!) why should she have to take care of those who never had the foresight to realize someday they would be old? Here is another bit of wisdom...be prepared to take care of yourself in your old age, because there won't be any government tit any more!!
Deb: I wonder why you hate the oil companys so much? I guess you don't remember why the royalties were lowered from Lougheeds time? It was because the damned east destroyed the oil and gas business. And the continued high taxation makes it hard to compete with Alaskan crude and gas. I don't know about Norway but will inquire of some of my buddies. Oil and gas companies will go where ever they can make a profit. Saskatchewan has a lot of oil and gas. The reason why it has never taken off is directly related to their dingbat governments!! It isn't worth the companys effort to develop marginal fields in Sask.! And while you rip the oil companys in Alberta do you have any kind of idea the amount of jobs(and very good jobs)they create? How much money they spend on goods and services? All this stuff is taxed by the province and I would suggest to you without this industry we would be probably one of the poorest provinces? So try not to bite the hand that feeds you too much.

[Deb]

Ken Nicol is an economist and knows agriculture inside out. He has bigger brains in his baby finger than all the Conservatives put together.

[cowman]

AHA!!! He is one of the little "experts"! I knew there was a reason I didn't like him! Give me Ralph the old drunk anyday!!!

[Deb]

Bingo. I rest my case.