Lyle in Washington

[cakadu]

Dalek, that research you've quoted wouldn't surprise me, given the concentration in those 2 provinces. If that's the way they're treating their animals, then more's the pity as it sounds as though they're not dealing with them too well.

After having read your two accounts of the trip down there, I wonder what the point of it all was. All the government people down in the US can smile and nod, wring their hands a little and then go on about what it was they were going to do anyway. How much do they care what their practices do to us or to anyone else?

[cakadu]

It's good to see a couple of new people to the discussion. Welcome aboard and don't be shy about sharing your comments/opinions/thoughts.

[carebear300]

I am sorry I sincerely thought that our illustrious agriculture minister had been a dairy farmer. I stand corrected, it is my first time on here and screwed up already.

[dalek]

No prob Carebear
Actually I think when he came back from college in the early 60s his father may still have been milking but only for a few years, then they focused on hogs and crops. At the end they were pretty big in farrow to finish, grains, PYO strawberries (maybe raspberries too) and I think some vegetables for the cannery when it was still open, peas and maybe sweet corn or tomatoes. I remember I was about 11 when I went to his sale, it was late March or early April of 86 and cold and snowy. That was also the first place I ever saw a Versatile.
Drove past Vanclief's house and (now his son's) farm on Wednesday.

[dalek]

Cakadu I think most of what this government does regarding agriculture at this point is aimed at convincing urban voters they're doing everything they can.

[cowman]

Linda: You ask what would happen if the government supported all agriculture to the extent they do supply management? I believe that is what we all would like to see...a level playing field in all sectors. But why take the lowest common denominator? Why not go for the highest? Subsidies aren't the answer but until we come up with a solution to extract a decent living out of the market they might be a necessity. And that solution might be to get rid of the parasites who take a disproportionate amount of the food dollar. Dairy isn't a complete bed of roses. Like every other aspect of agriculture the little guy is slowly being squeezed out. It's just taking a little longer.
I agree with you that supply managed industrys shouldn't be exporting. Why would anyone want to even try to compete with that old basket case New Zealand? Sort of like asking our workers to compete with a Mexican or a Chinese worker. Not possible.

[pandiana]

I am not a dairy farmer and I guess not all that knowledgeable about dairy although I have friends that are. But this talk of heavy subsidies for dairy is a complete surprise. Could someone fill me in as to what these subsidies are and how they are applied? How do they compare with other sectors?

As I look around my part of the countryside, the farms that are apparently making money are those that are supply managed. And yes, it would be very difficult to buy into dairy now without a great deal of financial backing, but not impossible to work up although I agree that smaller farms are facing an uphill battle in this area as well. Nonetheless, these seem to be the only ones making a consistent living.

Regarding life style and hard work, I find it curious that somehow hard work or a less than ideal lifestyle should be equated with how much a person is worth. I know of many who have worked very hard at undesirable jobs all their life for little compensation. In reality, worth is determined by the perception of the public of whether your services or skills are 'needed'.

[cakadu]

Carebear, part of what these dialogue rooms are for is to teach, inform and provoke us into thinking in a new manner. No harm done and thanks to dalek, we have a better idea of what it was he actually did. Thanks for getting it clarified for us.

[dalek]

There are few direct subsidies in supply management. Places like the Fraser Institute calculate the extra benefit of supply management over what they think the situation would be without supply management and call that difference a subsidy.
The major difference between dairy in Canada and in the US is, Canadian dairy farmers have a system where they can make a decent return on their product from the people who buy their product. US dairy farmers have a system where they get much of their return from taxpayers, and every US citizen gets to pay whether they consume dairy products or not.
Most if not all of the extra value of supply management, particularly to new farmers, has been capitalized into the cost of quota now anyway.