Farmers Get United.

[ianben]

Steve
I too thought united was fine till I read some of the comments.
Putting my ideas into words others will not misunderstand frustates me.

One of the things I find most difficult is to explain is how the idea of knowing the value of what we produce and each others cost of production would be so helpful when we come to market or even decide what we produce.

Most of all how the internet gives all farmers throughout the world access to the same information with one click of a mouse. This I believe is how we can be associated/enlightened and able to compete in this global world yet retain our independance.

Pandina

Yes simple is the key.
Hope we dont need to big an organisation. Bet the moderators on these forums could produce figures for Canada. In fact I bet the figures are available for most countries already just need someone to collect them and translate them into words we all understand. Most of what is out there I find meaningless to the individual.
A good web site and we are away!!!!

I am sure there are still plenty of doubters out there.
Money works, a piece of paper we all agree has a value, different values in different countries not perfect but an improvment on barter.
A system based on trust and honour universally accepted without us being united or cooperating more than we want.

If we can all trust a piece of paper for our money.
Following mutually benificial advice should be easy!!!!!

[ValueChainFX]

This is such an interesting topic for me and timely as well, I am working towards a system that ties each level of the supply chain together. These individuals are tied together with common threads that they can relate to, mostly in money and data from the products. The business format would probably be that of a new age style coop with a franchise twist to it. This is the closest description that I can come to the business operational description but no fear, I have many smart people helping to put this plan together and it is looking good both from the excitement of those participating and those organizing the system. I am finding one of the main keys is we all seem to relie on each other in the structure and get valued feed back from top to bottom.

Will keep you up dated on this

[Steve]

Ianben ; you are right any success in developing a farmers association takes trust, commitment and confidence that the plan will work. I think it is possible and not easy to achieve, but it is better to try and fail than do nothing at all. It may come down to like being an alcoholic, hit rock bottom before joining the AAs.

The latest news “ Consolidation of Benson Quinn- Growers Marketing and PCTS” is the writing on the wall that farmers should take note and realize standing alone and competing against your self will not improve our survival rate.

I think that most of the problems are inherited from our fathers “ stay on the farm, work hard and be your own boss.” Globalization took that idea away years ago.

We have to start by convincing people that the old days are gone forever and change is necessary for farmers to survive in this new fast world.

I think that all farm experts if they are sincere in trying to help farmers should take a good look at a farmer association concept and incorporate the idea into their seminars.
At the present too much is focused on promoting marketing alternatives as to forward pricing in risk management strategies. The way I see it is not working for the majority of the farmers and maybe part of the time for debit free FARM MANAGERS. All this promotes is stay independent and screw your neighbor. ( I mean this as constructive criticism and not slander.)

Start promoting the farmer association concept to existing farm organizations that the right price for their product is essential for the survival of all farmers and ranchers.
A stable fair price for grain is also good for the livestock producer because it would stabilize input costs. We all retain our independence and compete in quality and service, but not in pricing our primary farm products.

We have to make it very clear to all participants and may they be individuals or farm organizations that this farmers association is on a voluntary honor system and our only objective is to stabilize producers input cost and fair price for their raw produces. Any diversion from this topic at meetings will not be tolerated.

Suppliers providing farm products should be invited to meetings to participate in helping each other in stabilizing input costs and making farming a sustainable business. ( what is good for the goose is also good for the gander.)

[ianben]

Steve. I know you have read the past threads so perhaps know I too believe it could be a win win situation for everyone involved.
Experts do their best I believe with what is available and what help most farmers are willing to accept.
Trouble is as yet there is no equivalent of AA so when we get desparate we just blame someone any body and everybody.
At the moment the only solution is to leave the farm and for some people that is way below rock bottom.
It is a chicken and egg situation.
How do we get an AA equivalent set up so we can generate the hope trust and honour it would need to succeed

[ValueChainFX]

Well there is some very interesting reading on the new Gen Coops, these new coops look like they may have some good value in them to those that are looking. Check this site out

http://coop-studies.usask.ca/

[Steve]

ValueChainFX: I am not talking co-ops and I will try and explain how the farmers association should work.

Professional people have associations and each person has to be qualified and certified to join and provide services to the public at tariff rates. All these associates setup their own businesses and compete for good service and clientele.

The farmers have to qualify and register with the association. Tariff prices for selling primary farm products will be established by the association and followed by all participants. After the association is started and working the second phase would be to stabilize the input cost by working with farm supply stores and their suppliers.

The farmers association will not own stores, supplies or equipment, interfere with individual farming practices or management, type of product to produce and volume, crop insurance, not get involved with groups fighting for some other cause, labeling and packaging.
All the above goes under the heading. “ GOOD COMPETITIVE MANAGEMENT.”

Banks are run by professional people that know how to compete in service and maintain a sustainable business, but also realize that you don’t provide services below operating cost.

Farmers stop pointing fingers and think and act like professionals and farming can also be a sustainable business. ( If you want to be treated equal than think and act equal )

Farmers use the association to your advantage and don’t throw all you problems in one basket and than start fighting over what is right or wrong. The basket case is a good example how the Government bureaucracy operates and we all know it doesn’t work.

I think all barley and feed wheat should be off the CWB.

The association will set wheat price guidelines for the CWB to follow.

This farmers association should act in a responsible and fair manner.

This association will request that the Government legislate a law that domestic farm products take priority over imports.

Marketing examples:

If the established price of canola is $7.50 the producer can sell for more, but not less than the price set by the association. The producers can sell to any grain buyer, feedlot, grain company or commodity marketing exchange.
I suggest we use the Grain Pricing Order and or Future Commodity Marketing but the asking or selling price must not be lower than the price set by the association; also don’t sign contracts with un-priced grain. This is just a small example and can be expanded to all primary farm products.

This association doesn’t manage goods or money and is on a voluntary honor system for the benefit of all. I know a lot of people will question how this simple solution would work and the answer is easy, all people need to eat ever day so price you produce at a responsible price and it will be sold. The farmers can’t continue to produce cheap food at their own expense to feed the poor and it is up to the Government to subsidize the people that need help to feed their children.

This report was written with no research and may not agree with Government bureaucrats and studies done and published by people that never farmed and make their living by doing research.
I know this is the wrong time of the year to promote the association concept, but this will give you time to think about it, because I know the days will be long and boring this spring sitting in that tractor cab.

This is the way I see it.

[ValueChainFX]

Steve I do believe you and your thoughts have the right end result in mind! However, what I am hearing you say at the moment is, "If the associations that we have in place at the moment would just do their jobs and work for the producers as they were set up to do, then we would be fine." The reality though is most associations tend to put the cart before the horse, get involved in make work projects and forget the original purpose.

Call any new association/coop/business structure what you like ... the bottom line is ... on the farm we all have our own profit center. the supply chain can actually be compaired, or aligned with an information line. Each of us in the supply chain has the information we need to ensure our part of the supply chain is supplied with goods and services. If we supply our product to the supply chain when the supply chain demands it then it is supposed to work.

We all know only to well that the equity side of this equation has been less then fair! Thus the assoiciations that are really supposed to bridge the gap in the information lines and help establish fair and equitable resolve for all parties. Knowing these associations have not accomplished this for the industry means that they are clearly not doing their jobs. An example may be that an industry is promoting a meat product at the retail level, producing marketing material and POS hand outs for a consumer product, when the industry itself has no standards, no consistent products to offer, fractured leadership and non functional communication. This promotion hurts the industry more then helps in that the end user may try the product through promotional information and never recieve the same product again or be able to find the product in the first place.

United means that functionality is built in the supply chain and the needs of those involved from start to finish are taken into consideration! If you have a weak point in your supply line, then sorry to say the overall supply line suffers. Adding strength through united programs and communicating challenges bought on by market conditions through out the life cycle of your product is the only way to ensure stable markets and prices.

I sure see your enthusiasm steve and hope you can clarify your vision more for us! I enjoy your input and knowledge.

[ianben]

I agree with Steve except I want all farmers involved. Global like the people we deal with!!!
I think we may be struggling with words again here.

Value added fine if it works for those involved Ditto food chain, organic,diversified etc but not a solution for everyone.
They too would benefit from higher prices as their premiums would be fixed on a higher base.

Unions associations co-ops all been tried and failed as to small to compete or side track by the commitee.

However we all know these global companies set prices based on ability to pay and others costs of production.
Which basically means they all charge the same price and compete in other ways.
A fact farmers moan about continually.

If there is a word for this I don't know it.
Perhaps because officially it does not happen there is no word.

I believe the internet gives us the oppertunity to a least try to play by these global rules with no name.

FARMERSANONOMOUS. COM Where farmers fix prices!!!!!

[Steve]

I know that I must sound like a broken record on this subject but will continue and clarify some of the points on how the farmers association should function, and by comparing it to co-ops and unions may be the easiest way.

The farmers association doesn’t discriminate against co-ops or united organizations and all primary producers are welcome to join even if they are active in co-ops, but can’t and will not be tolerated if they bring in problems that arise in others parts of the food chain. I am talking from experience and know that to many cooks will spoil the soup.

Co-ops worked reasonably well in small areas and served the local people needs before globalization took over. Co-operative organizations are setup to control the food chain from primary producer to in user, and to accomplish this idea on a large scale is impossible because the food chain is long,complex and also global.

Local co-ops are okay because that gives the associated farmer one more choice to sell products and as I said before there is room for farmers to go their own way and sell eggs, veggies and home made bread direct to the consumer, but that is not the choice of the majority.

ValueChainFX : you are correct by saying that you need good communications along the food chain and it is already there by way of competition.
Good managers along the food chain know it is imperative to provide satisfactory service, quality and the right product to the consumer in order to stay in business.
I think you said, it is hard to get a consistent quality product to process so this is also passed on to the next phase of the food chain.
Now by this example you can see that a co-operative food chain would have a problem to maintain that needed quality, because your inline partners can say, “ we did the best we could ” are you going to be satisfied with that solution?

So we can say if you want a sustainable business, produce, process, and deliver the product that the customer wants and competition will give us all a choice.

Now my reason to propose the farmers association is to even up the risk and the rapid increase in production cost. At the present time the primary producer is not able to pass some of this addition cost and risk onto the food chain.

The farmers association only deals with the primary selling price of products, which will be set at a fair value, as not to destroy the incentive for good management and maintain a sustainable business. At the same time it will be the responsibility of the producer to produce the product that can be sold.

The association has no monetary value therefore it can’t go broke and is based on trust.
Ianben had the right answer for this one “ if we can trust a piece of paper for our money, following mutual beneficial advice should be easy.

[Steve]

Ianben, thanks for pointing out the reasons why farm expert advisers should not be any part of the farmers association. Some additional reasons are: Most of them are Government employees or have their own practice, are not primary producers, and it would not be in their best interest to promote such an organization.

I think they do and should continue researching new ideas in farming practices, seeds and chemicals available, also good management.

On the marketing side, do research on world demand, product surplus and commodity prices. They can make their predictions as to the products to produce and the possible price to expect. The farmers will have to decide if to use it ( its like the dog scenario will he ever catch his tail ) or stay with a good crop rotation, but do try some new products.

[Steve]

Proposed farmer’s association guidelines for establishing primary producers grain prices are:

Five years of production per defined area with the extremes high or low not include.

Areas with constantly very high production only 80% value will be used.

Areas with extremely difficult problems to produce an average crop 30% value will be used.

By using all three values it should give us a reasonably good production average for each crop. (open discussions at the meetings on this topic )

We can’t incorporate loss of grain production into the average due to extreme weather conditions and crop insurance will have to take care of that problem. This association will not deal with weather related problems and should be discussed under risk management, although the right grain price will also help.

The cost of production:

Land value will not be used, but the average rent per acre in each area and the very highs and lows will not be used.

Average size good equipment and the right ratio to cultivated acres will be used to determine the cost of equipment. Fuel and labor costs will be added.

There are a lot of studies that can be used for the amount of fertilizer to be applied to produce a good crop and herbicides to control weeds. ( GMO products will be considered )

Cost of crop insurance will be added.

At the meetings there will be discussions to determine the net profit needed to replace equipment and maintain a sustainable farming business.

The grain prices will be established after considering all the above. ( and things I forgot.)

The individual producer will have to decide on their lifestyle and how much land it will take to operate a sustainable grain farming business. I know there will be problems in some areas and will have to be solved by good management decisions.

This is not a prefect solution for all farm problems, but by starting with a fair selling price for products to help the primary producer is going in the right direction.

Wrong or right but solving one problem at a time is the way I see it.

[ianben]

Steve. The banking thread above highlights the problem we are facing I feel.
The farmers unable to see high risk business,farming,will pay high charges on loans.
Prudent business for a bank after all who knows what the produce will be worth

Rock bottom. Planting without fert and chem for insurance.
Desparate.
No farmersanonomous.com

All because we can't fix a price!!!!!