A moral dilemma

[cowman]

It is amazing how the pastures are coming back! Another half inch of rain last night(good for the pastures but not so good for the oil lease reclamation business!). I suspect the recent rains will toughen some people up and get them in a frame of mind to try to hang in there. Maybe this drought thing has broken??? Maybe I can afford to hang in there??? I hope it works and mother Nature will co-operate. These are stressful times.

[cakadu]

To give you a little more to digest and to quote a phrase my mother used - If the neighbor jumped off the high level bridge (I lived part of my life in Edmonton), would you go too? Sure, Red Deer is booming, primarily because of oil and when the next downturn in the oil patch comes (which may be sooner rather than later) what will happen then?

At the land use conference in January of this year, it was suggested that we take from the land only what does not impair future generations to do the same. As we loose agricultural land - like your pasture, we are forced to move into more marginal and/or forested areas in order to obtain more land for grazing. The pressure becomes stronger to have intense livestock operations because of less land, which in turn conflicts with those who don't want these operations on the back doorstep. To increase our productivity, we need to manage areas better and take marginal lands and make them better for grazing etc.

We have 2 choices - we can grow out - suburbia or we can grow up - intensity. Look at the number of single family homes in Red Deer or homes where only one person lives. Should we be using the land to parcel it out for $80,000 acreages? How have you felt about these people that have acreages with one or two horses on them? What about the total infrastructure costs? How much of it will you have to bear?

If we continue to want to do everything, everywhere anytime, we will irretrievably break areas down. Once the genie is out of the bottle, you can't get him back in.

It's not an easy decision you have to make and I certainly don't envy you.

[leland]

Glad to hear someone out there is getting rain. We are north of Edmonton and still have only had 1.5" all season. Pastures still very poor and the next round of cow liquidation is about to start in this area. Silaged 10 tandem loads of Seebe Barley off an entire quarter. 5 loads off 55 acres that last year gave 39. How do we hold these cows over with $150 hay bales? We rented extra grass at $27.50 per month to get us through and reduce our stocking rates but we will only have feed for the calves, no winter cow feed. We have always kept a low stocking rate and didn't feed any cows untill Jan 15 last year and 1/3 of the herd grazed till Mar 15 last year. This year we will surely start winter feeding by Sept 30. Our grazing reserve held the cows out till the end of May and pulled the calves this week to keep the cows there a little longer. So as we chop feed we are feeding it already. I guess we think of weather cycles as short term but I believe they are possibly 60 to 70 or even 100 year cycles and as our lifespan is shorter we fail to realize the changes in weather. Gernerally this area is a net exporter of feed.

[cowman]

Right now Red Deer is moving very agressively to the east and southeast. Lots of really big houses going up. This is some of the best land around and they always seem to get rain right in the area that is going into housing. Last year they had bumper type crops while a few miles south it was very dry.
The local municipal government is making noises about stopping further developement in the county. So is the Alberta government. But it sort of bugs me that they choose this route. How do they expect someone to sit on land that is worth mega bucks and lose money raising cattle and grain? It's no different than the BC land bank thing. They forced the Okanogan farmer to sit on land that was worth millions to developers and slowly go bankrupt. Now is that fair? I figure if society wants to save agricultural land or green areas then they better get out the checkbook. But will they? I doubt it...much easier to legislate away our property rights.And the sad part of this is speculators bought up a lot of that land, sat on it and used their influence to get a lot of this land developed anyway. Theres always a way if you know who to bribe!
It's just like a show I caught on television about gasoline. Sulphur content is the major cause of pollutents in gas. It is possible to have low sulphur gas but its going to cost something. About one cent a liter. So the oil companies asked the government for a reduction in the excise tax. The government response? Change the law so the oil companies have to comply but no tax break. This seems to be the way governments address problems that might cost them something. No incentives just the long arm of the law.
Our local reeve said it very clearly: People have to live somewhere and the Calgary/Edmonton corrider is only going to grow at an increasing rate. We can't turn the clock back no matter how much we might want to. I'm not going to get in a big panic about this. I'm just one little guy and I can't change the world. If it happens it happens.

[pandiana]

Yes, west central is still getting more rain. A somewhat mixed blessing with what hay there is down on many fields. But we are not going to cut our lawn again after 3 weeks. It will be the 6th time this year with at least two of those dandelions only. And it does take away some of the stress, but we still have no locally grown winter feed to purchase. We are still looking to an very expensive winter if we keep cows.

[pandiana]

I am one that is getting out. It doesn't make sense to winter ANY animals at a significant loss, especially if you've any debt. How much work are your animals? More importantly, do you enjoy it, does it enhance your quality of life, and is it the best use of your time and energy? Or do you just do it because your dad did it or because "that's what I've always done for a living?" This is one year that is calling into question all our old paradigms. It is surely a year of change, and has certainly driven many of us who raise critters in the drought area to the breaking point. I was in the bank last week, and noticed a mostly empty box of kleenex on the guy's desk. He told me it's there because he sees grown men breaking down in his office over their situation.

Those with deep pockets may be able to weather the "weather" for another year or even a few more years. If this weather pattern is indeed very long term, we are in for "interesting times".

I suggest that there is going to be a good upcoming market for custom grass raised meat, as urbanites become increasingly fussy about their food. Those who live within a reasonable travelling distance from the cities will have an easier time marketing their critters. Not sure how some of us who live in the sticks are going to make out though. The neighbor just got $15 each for his lambs. And not everybody wants to/is good at doing their own marketing/advertising.

We have had three inches of rain here since the spring melt.

[cowman]

You got it Pontiac. ZZZZZZZZ

[cowman]

Tavani: You are the voice of common sense. Very good to hear in the sea of "cowlovers"! Dollars and cents have to add up in any business, or it isn't a business at all...it is an expensive hobby!
And Rod I'm shocked you would question the integrity of Mothercorp or such a venerable scientist as David Suzuki! I think they need to send you back to school for some brainwashing in the Canadian way!

[pandiana]

cowman: You sure do seem to be down on 'cowlovers' these days. There is no doubt in my mind that there is every reason to dump all cows this year if you are looking at the short term and getting out anyway. Nonetheless there remain many questions. How expensive will it be to get back in if you are not finished farming? Say you have invested a pile of money into specialized cattle related machinery and equipment. Will you be forced to sell this at bargain prices if everyone takes your advice? What are you going to live on while you try to rebuild your herd or on the otherhand, re-equip for another venture? I have heard over and over that some cattlemen have spend a lifetime building their herds. If it is dry next year will you be able to make enough hay to offset your lost income? How many farmers can the oilpatch absorb? Or, are we all going to flock to the city to live the good life?

[ianben]

You got the location those city dwellers want!!!
It would be cruel to condem them to a life both of us would hate.

Do them a favor and take their money!!!

The wild life might prefer the new neighbours lots of urban foxes here.

The type of people who buy that of property here certainly create a more diverse environment than farmers.