Risk Takers Slapped in the Face

[silverback]

Do you mean you left sask? When? Why? Where is home now?

[ivbinconned]

2006 spending and investing:
-Husky Energy - $????
-Conoco-Phillips - $????
-Petro Canada -$????
-Calfrac -$????

With out these numbers...the above information means nothing.

Don't know any poor people that hire anyong??

[ado089]

I left sask in 2004 to move to the Calgary area. ,This was before the boom really took hold. I had my fun in Saskatoon, dad wasn't ready to start sharing the farm yet. I wanted to stay near a bigger city and Winnipeg and Regina were out of the question so that left Calgary. I stayed in agricuture and now that there is a labour shortage myself and a couple of friends from university dable in construction...Beleive me as soon as I can find a new job close to home that is still a step up for me I am out of Alberta.

As for those numbers not meaning anything take a careful look at that comment...those are NET figures directly off of their 2006 financial reports. That would take into account their investment costs as well. Personaly I want to see any deserving buisness venture be successful but at $90/barrell that success is coming out of my pocket. Let's not forget that these resources belong to the people of Alberta and until that changes everyone should benefit from those natural wealths, with a little more for the people that capitalize on them....An interesting side not since we are talking about investment. In 1947 when oil was discovered at Leduc a barrel of oil and a bushel of wheat were worth about the same (approx. $2.50) now tell me what the world would miss first...oil or food?

[silverback]

So you moved to Calgary to take advantage of the job market that is happening and now you are complaining that you aren't getting a piece of the pie correct?

You are upset that the major oil companies are posting profits on their books, but you won't admit that the reason the job market in calgary is booming is due to the spinoff from the gas patch.

You seem really pissed that you have to pay health care premiums now that you live here, but do you suppose that maybe the reason that you didn't have to in Sask was either that you didn't make enough money in the first place, or that the tax rate in Sask is higher to cover the shortfall?

Some of the same companies that invested a lot of money in Alberta and hired thousands of people are now getting things going in Sask in a big way, perhaps it is time to follow them there. Then after you get a good paying job due to the money they have pumped back into the province, you can ask your gov't why your taxes are so high and you have a provincial sales tax.

[ivbinconned]

089...perhaps YOU should read a little more carefully. The article I posted was about "little oil".

Even the BIG ones you mentioned have been spending the profits they gained...you best find out how and where before you condemn or jump to conclusions.

Would "Leduc" ever have happened had those risking and investing been told..."go ahead"...but if you succeed you have to share with everybody...even those that JUST MOVED HERE???"

That principle is as important today as it was then…but is not well understood.

Your comments betray the typical NDP jealousy and envy of anybody, or entity that makes more than ME...this has been the downfall of Saskatchewan, where farm land is the highest taxed in Canada!! No wonder you left. My kids did too. But if you want to come back and help us pay the taxes and the health care of an aging population, and support a high native population …come on back.

[ado089]

I seem to be getting ganged up on here. First of all I did not move here for a great paying job as a result of the spinoff from oil...when I first moved out here I was working for agricore united, they pay the same shitty wages wether you work in starbuck manitoba, viscount saskatchewan or calgary alberta...so don't even begin to acuse me of money being the reason I moved here. I did take advantage of the lack of trades people by doing what most of the world considers chores or weekend hobbies...building fences and patios as well as some landscaping...all that really did was make up the difference in my health and auto insurance premiums and rent. Secondly it's called RISK for a reason, there is a chance of faillure! If you want to invest in something with no risk buy canada savings bonds. There are two things that really piss me off about this situation. First when you exploit a natural reasource there is a whole list of social and eviromental costs that come with that, those issues need to be addressed and that takes money. Secondly when you have one industry (especialy one that can fall into a living necesity) that makes a 75% or so margin on their product(breakeven last time I checked was about $21/barel) it puts economic preasure on the rest of society. Success is fine with me just don't push someone else down while you're doing it. I'm sure if wheat was $90/bu making a loaf of bread worth $20 no one would gripe about farmers being taxed to put in place a food subsidy system...but if that was the case I'm sure urea would be $6,600/t and combines would $3.5 million each and Roundup would be $91/l.

[ivbinconned]

""I did take advantage of the lack of trades people by doing what most of the world considers chores or weekend hobbies...building fences and patios as well as some landscaping...all that really did was make up the difference in my health and auto insurance premiums and rent.""

Welcome to the real world!! You paid all those costs in Saskatchewan too!! It was just all hidden from you...out of site out of mind! If you need proof of this read “A Nation of Serfs?”

89...there are two ways to look at it. Capitalism is the uneven distribution of wealth...and Socialism is the equal distribution of poverty.

That you choose to work in the Ag sector is your choice. Don’t complain about the oil patch workers (where you could go and work) that are being rewarded for work with higher pay. That higher pay IS A FORM OF ROYALTY directly paid to those in the field.

Tim Horton’s is having a hard time finding employees…is the oil patch? No! Pay higher wages when there is a shortage of bodies to hire and they will go that way. It’s the market…embrace it or be left behind. But don’t complain about your choice!

[ado089]

I guess my question is what are they being rewarded for...higher education? No. Longer hours? Not really if you take into account most didn't work from march until mid july this year. Superior skill? Maybe for some, but definetely not the majority. Providing a higher valued product/service to society? Oil's important but far from a necesity, kind of???, we did with out it for 7 million years. So remind me again why a manual labourour should be "rewarded" more than someone who feeds 25,000 people for a year (3000ac farm), educates the next generation, or treats you when something goes wrong. Maybe the awnser isn't higher earnings but reduced costs, there lots of manual labourours in this world maybe we just need to tweak imigration rules?...Increased wages=increased cost of living=increased wages=increased cost of living...we have a term for this, it's called inflation pull out a macro economics book and look up what the results of inflation are when it surpasses growth...it effectively devalues money. It's all relative. One thing is for sure, once that cycle starts wages will always lag behind the cost of living.

[ado089]

"It’s the market…embrace it or be left behind. But don’t complain about your choice!"

I expect then when the market says they don't need oil, or oil from alberta or perhaps it runs out or if oil companies deem these wages are just too much of a cost no one will complain...and certainly not with their mouthes full!

[silverback]

It sounds like the reason your Dad wasn't ready to share the farm yet was because he maybe knows your sense of entitlement is way ahead of your work ethic. Parents have a way of knowing when their kids aren't ready for something.

My nephew is making over $300 per day working for a small service company in northern alberta. He has a grade 11 education and works like a dog. He loves it. When he cashes those big cheques he puts way too much against a brand new truck, but he is also banking more than his college educated brother.

Why do you suppose you are able to do as many odd construction jobs in Calgary as you want? You could probably do more if you wanted to right? Did you ever stop to think it is because of someone making some good wages who can then hire you to do the work they don't have time for? Did you ever think to ask those homeowners who they work for? When times were slow in Sask., was there much work like that there for you to do? I bet there is now.

Nobody I know ever said life was fair. What they did say was that if you work hard and treat people with respect, success will follow.

What is your definition of what these companies should be allowed to make? Do you advocate government control of oil/gas production? Wage and price controls?

[ado089]

Maybe my dad doesn't want me farming because he knows that even though it's what I love doing he doesn't want me to have to work my a$$ off my whole life to make a meager pittance of a living. My work ethic...I make half my income from projects away from my full time job as as agronomist/marketing manager. You probably have a fair idea of what an agronomist makes double that, do the math, I'm not poor. It would just be nice to be able to call it quits after working 50 or 60 hrs/ week instead of 80 or 100. Four years ago that 60hrs a week was lots to get by, have some fun and put a little away. Has my value to society depreciated in last four years because that's the message I'm getting...funny because people still need to eat. This isn't even the point...the point is that oil and gas are reasources belong to the government of Alberta, the government has a responsibilty to it's people-education, health care, infrastructure... The industry itself never mind the additional people it requires has put a strain on the infrastructure. Like it or leave it, there is still a pot load of money made by oil and gas regardless of a royalty increase. Who has the problem with what they think they're entitled to???

[silverback]

Why did you move to the fastest growing city in canada if you couldn't afford to live there?

Working 80 - 100 hours a week just to support your drinking and housing expenses doesn't sound all that intelligent. Why don't you move to a smaller town or city that has cheaper housing so you aren't so upset that gas patch workers are making more than you are?

We're sorry that the government in Alberta never promised to take care of all your problems.

[ado089]

Whatever. I'm set for the long run, I'll continue to be successful no matter what happens in the future. Just don't expect my sypathy, if, or more likely when, energy prices back off, or as third world countries become more politicaly stable therefore more attractive for investment and all of a sudden the few hundred thousand people making the big bucks in Alberta now, suddenly find themselves unemployed. Not that I want to see that happen but things that grow too fast built on a poor foundation tople over. I'm not old but I've seen it happen before and I'm not foolish enough to think it won't happen again and I know for a fact it will be the kids with a grade 11 education making $300/day, driving the expensive trucks with a quad and a boat behind it that will be the first to feel it. Investing in the future is never a bad thing but people these days don't see that anymore. History has shown that governments/societies don't topple in the bad times but rather by how the manage the good times. This "wealth" impacts all albertans, the same way the disappearance of it will. It doesn't make sense to me to go into that situation with as sh!t load of bills left as a result of it and not have any money in the bank accout to pay for it.